Accepting the Constitution

[Gloriana]

Write the Constitution right - with general statements and use the Code of Laws, which should be easily changed, to fill in the details.

The Constitution should provide the basic framework from which we build our governement structure. As such, it needs to be difficult to change, to ensure that such fundamental changes are difficult to enact, and will require most of the voters to support the change.

Quite honestly, however, if you require a long enough poll period (4 days or so), I would suggest dropping the census requirement entirely. Keep the Constitution amendment threshold at 2/3, the Code of Laws at simple majority and call it done.

-- Ravensfire

Hear hear, I agree completely

 

[Strider]

Going to go off-topic (sense everyone else is anyway).

Maybe it would be better to allow basic changes of the constitution with a simple majority, but fundamental ones with a 2/3 vote. That way we can make the necessary edits to keep things running smoothly, but not have to worry about someone barely managing to pass a law that have the population dislikes.

With the addition of the time-based sunset clause (where amendments go back up to vote every ?? days, terms, turns, whatever) that should make rule changes much more friendly.

 

[Alphawolf]

Going to go off-topic (sense everyone else is anyway).

Maybe it would be better to allow basic changes of the constitution with a simple majority, but fundamental ones with a 2/3 vote. That way we can make the necessary edits to keep things running smoothly, but not have to worry about someone barely managing to pass a law that have the population dislikes.

With the addition of the time-based sunset clause (where amendments go back up to vote every ?? days, terms, turns, whatever) that should make rule changes much more friendly.

You're probably getting tired of me asking for clarification but what is a 'basic change' and what differentiates it from a fundamental change?

Yes to sunset clauses.

-the Wolf

 

[Strider]

You're probably getting tired of me asking for clarification but what is a 'basic change' and what differentiates it from a fundamental change?

Yes to sunset clauses.

-the Wolf

When I said basic change, I meant something small that wouldn't effect the game much. Mainly just fixing something that doesn't seem to be working properly. Fundamental was meant as more game changing, instead of just fixing.

 

[Alphawolf]

When I said basic change, I meant something small that wouldn't effect the game much. Mainly just fixing something that doesn't seem to be working properly. Fundamental was meant as more game changing, instead of just fixing.

In that case I agree. Thanks for answering.

-the Wolf

 

[Stilgar08]

When I said basic change, I meant something small that wouldn't effect the game much. Mainly just fixing something that doesn't seem to be working properly. Fundamental was meant as more game changing, instead of just fixing.

*decloak*
Don't wanna be a pain in the A***, but who decides what's a basic change and what's a fundamental one?? The government? Or just the president? It should at least be the government as a whole...
And to completely get annoying: To me a "basic change" IS a fundamental one.... Shouldn't it be "major change" vs. "minor change"?? *cloak*

 

[Alphawolf]

*decloak*
Don't wanna be a pain in the A***, but who decides what's a basic change and what's a fundamental one?? The government? Or just the president? It should at least be the government as a whole...
And to completely get annoying: To me a "basic change" IS a fundamental one.... Shouldn't it be "major change" vs. "minor change"?? *cloak*

I assume that it is included in the constitution, at least it should be.

-the Wolf

 

[ravensfire]

When I said basic change, I meant something small that wouldn't effect the game much. Mainly just fixing something that doesn't seem to be working properly. Fundamental was meant as more game changing, instead of just fixing.

That's a difference in perception, and is nearly impossible to get strong concensus on. You cannot put "basic change" and "fundamental change" in the Constitution without generating massive confusion.

Keep the Constitution simple by using it as a framework, set the amendment at 4 day poll, 2/3 majority in support. Put the details in the Code of Laws, 3 day poll, simple majority in support.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Alphawolf]

That's a difference in perception, and is nearly impossible to get strong concensus on. You cannot put "basic change" and "fundamental change" in the Constitution without generating massive confusion.

Keep the Constitution simple by using it as a framework, set the amendment at 4 day poll, 2/3 majority in support. Put the details in the Code of Laws, 3 day poll, simple majority in support.

-- Ravensfire

Yes, it's important to keep the constitution simple, but you do need an article in the constitution on how to change it.

-the Wolf.

 

[ravensfire]

Yes, it's important to keep the constitution simple, but you do need an article in the constitution on how to change it.

-the Wolf.

Yup - that's in my post.

-- Ravensfire

 

[Strider]

*decloak*
Don't wanna be a pain in the A***, but who decides what's a basic change and what's a fundamental one?? The government? Or just the president? It should at least be the government as a whole...
And to completely get annoying: To me a "basic change" IS a fundamental one.... Shouldn't it be "major change" vs. "minor change"?? *cloak*

We would have to decide on that, but I'm figuring (right now) that the best option would to have the Judiciary decide what type of change it is.

Also, from my experience... a complex constitution is a must. Civ3 DG1 and DG2 both had extremely complex constitutions. No problems in either of them, DG3 we went in and made it simple... we started having massive troubles. Complexity eliminates the need for controversy.

We need to eliminate this mindset that you have to read the constitution inorder to play the game. I've never read the large majority of our constitutions throughly, unless I helped to design it.. I barely know what's in the damn thing. Hell, I don't think I even looked at the constitution untill DG3.

 

[Illini Rule]

3/4 vote would make the most sence. That way it is the most acceptable to all