Acid by now 'weapon of choice' for London street gangs

[Kyriakos]

Well, if you slavishly base your entire world view about crime on crime statistics, then by default this is the definition that you have to go with. This is why white supremacists generally are so intent about trying to stuff the statistics down everyone's throat.

Even if crime stats show black people on average committing (as in 'being arrested for') more crimes, it obviously would have to do with social conditions, not with race.

Feeling that one has second-class status as citizen, can and will lead to more crime. It doesn't matter what race one has.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Even if crime stats show black people on average committing (as in 'being arrested for') more crimes, it obviously would have to do with social conditions, not with race.

Feeling that one has second-class status as citizen, can and will lead to more crime. It doesn't matter what race one has.

Sure. That's a fine challenge to make if the discussion is about why people turn to crime. Unfortunately this discussion is about one person's claim that crime statistics, which are based on arrests, can be trusted as an indication of criminal activity. Since that claim has not had any proof offered and has been undermined by everyone else in the thread as well as by the source cited by the person making the claim, but it continues to be repeated ad nauseum, there really doesn't seem to be anything to do but make sport of the claim and have as much fun with it as possible.

 

[Farm Boy]

Where did you get your pot smoking bumbers from?

I quoted the article I quoted because it seemed to be working off of the same report I was digging around in. If you want to take specific issue with them, by all means. They're just numbers, they have uses and limits to those uses.

https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUHresultsPDFWHTML2013/Web/NSDUHresults2013.pdf

 

[Yeekim]

@Katie88
Too lazy to do that myself and I have no horse in that race besides, but looking at statistics for a particular type of crime (like murders) would be interesting.

Unlike with stuff like shoplifting, jaywalking or weed possession, I'd expect that overwhelming number of murders actually do get reported and investigated.
Consequently, this category of crimes should be less susceptible to "selective policing" and convictions rates there should reflect actual crime rates better.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Unlike with stuff like shoplifting, jaywalking or weed possession, I'd expect that overwhelming number of murders actually do get reported and investigated.
Consequently, this category of crimes should be less susceptible to "selective policing" and convictions rates there should reflect actual crime rates better.

Indeed. However the "murder rate" can be misleading in other ways. People in business in legal enterprises destroy their opposition using cops and courts. People in business in illegal enterprises destroy their opposition using direct physical means. Only one of those shows up in crime rates. If you leave out the murders that are "just business" I suspect you would find things to be pretty even, and that no one is more likely to murder their spouse, or more likely to murder some random stranger over a fender bender in a parking lot, or commit any of the other unprofessional crimes, based on their race.

 

[Oerdin]

@Katie88
Too lazy to do that myself and I have no horse in that race besides, but looking at statistics for a particular type of crime (like murders) would be interesting.

Unlike with stuff like shoplifting, jaywalking or weed possession, I'd expect that overwhelming number of murders actually do get reported and investigated.
Consequently, this category of crimes should be less susceptible to "selective policing" and convictions rates there should reflect actual crime rates better.

I don't know about the UK but in the US blacks make up abou 12.5% of the population but commit every so slightly under 50% of the murders. Personally, I attribute that to cultural failings but the fact remains tge crime rates in the black community have been and remain massively elevated compared to the average. Hispanics also have elevated crime rates but not as badly as blacks while both white and especially east Asians have much lower rates than average. This is according to every study I have ever seen as well as official government stats.

Draw what ever conclusions you wish, I am simply stating facts.

 

[Kyriakos]

Hm, i wasn't aware of how many thousands of acid attacks actually take place, and mostly in London... This is pretty terrible.
Moreso it makes little sense that they are used just so as to rob people for a little bit of cash.

 

[Yeekim]

Indeed. However the "murder rate" can be misleading in other ways. People in business in legal enterprises destroy their opposition using cops and courts. People in business in illegal enterprises destroy their opposition using direct physical means. Only one of those shows up in crime rates. If you leave out the murders that are "just business" I suspect you would find things to be pretty even, and that no one is more likely to murder their spouse, or more likely to murder some random stranger over a fender bender in a parking lot, or commit any of the other unprofessional crimes, based on their race.

First, I realize it's been half a year. Sorry for that.
But I have somehow missed this.

You are certainly right that a large part of murders are "just business" as you put it. However, it does not make the stat "misleading".
It just means that both victims and perpetrators, being in business in illegal enterprises, are guilty of even more crimes than that single murder.

Saying "if you professional criminals and serial offenders out of the picture, it looks a lot more even", is a rather weird argument.