Acken's Minimalistic Balance for singleplayer (and AI improvements)

[adcarrymaokai]

Of course it is very strong in the lategame and I suppose it is useful early on, but it really isn't all that great when all you are getting are Naval technologies, just as an example

Naval technologies lead to biology, which you need for aircraft and tanks. And last tech I got was Replaceable Parts.

By the way, Acken, have you considered sticking biology as a prerequisite for Flight/Plastics? It doesn't make sense to discover stuff which uses oil without having discovered oil (plastic is an oil byproduct).

 

[Acken]

The technology tree would have to be severly reworked. Flight and biology aren't exactly next to each others.

Bio for plastics I don't know. I understand the logical aspect but I don't really see what it achieves.

 

[Acken]

Surely Chariots to Crossbows completely destroys Mongolia???!!! (and Arabia)

I continued playing on the game that I posted. A really long tough war with Morocco got me his nearest city, but he would not make peace and I just don't know how to put together a Domination sweep in this mod. I can't keep any kind of momentum. It's really, really hard

EDIT: I'm beginning to wonder if I'm missing some tricks with manoeuvres on this mod. Let's imagine a city with a clear path to it, and perhaps some units behind it. I'm trying to get the melee units to it, and to attack it ASAP, but do you move them back out if there is significant reinforcement from behind the city? Do you accept that there will be higher casualties than in base game since melee units are 'more involved'? Are war roads far more important now?

Bring on Acken Challenge #2 I say! "D

Destroys is a bit of a strong word. Those units are OP anyway. Now could keshiks and Camels replace crossbows instead.... hmmm.

Yes domination is damn hard on demigod (at least land based). There are no easy solutions for that. Cities are weak enough I think. The solution would be to make the defender suck at defending but mehhhhhhh.
Or a nerf to the train reduction the AI gets is a possibility (that's already the case compared to vanilla by the way).

Yes you have to accept casualties if it allows you a surround. I'm trying to see if a buff is possible to horses to allow better flanks.
The hard part of capturing a city is the focus fire of the city and all the ranged units in the back. If a move allows you to make severe damage there the city should fall.
I'm also willing to look into siege units.

On the other hand ranged units are still rather efficient and can still get their OP logistics promotion.

To be honest I need more test myself

Acken second challenge is due this week end with v7 and will be a Rome Pangea demigod map. Prepare your honor legion rush

When I follow the link to the latest experimental in the OP, I still get v6. FWIW, I've combined your mod with a pikeman to musketman mod before and spotted no imbalances.

Fixed. Thanks for noticing.

I think the Assyrian UA in general needs a rework. RNG is never ever a good idea and I despise it.

Since we are changing Great Scientists, why not make the Assyria UA similiar in that it gives you a flat science towards your current research path depending on era? It is a really simple solution and allows the player complete control over which technologies are "stolen".

Maybe make it trigger a tech steal instead. I like the fact that the UA is only a catch up mechanic.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

For anyone interested, here is my t211 save of consentient's map. You will find
- an army poised to spearhead through Ethiopia
- a few units down south to defend vs Haile
- a few units east to kill Venetian pikes (lol) and a small buildup to take the coastal Ethiopian city for free tech
- cities building units (mostly air)
- 5000 cash from trade missions. In the general gpt there is about 250 gpt coming from the peace deal with Brazil, so plan accordingly.
- most trade routes going to CS because happiness will be an issue until we take juicy capitals with all the happiness wonders.
- only 2 techs behind the leader, and I will probably get ballistics before taking a city, so it will just be plastics, and then the UA becomes useless :0

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Also, Haile Selassie, who declared war on me a couple turns back is already begging for peace. But Enrico Dandolo won't accept any.

 

[noto2]

Acken please just keep going down the route you've already chosen with regards to AI behaviour. If Sirwhale doesn't like it, he can just play BNW because it seems that is what he's asking for, a base game experience. AI playing to win is one of the main reasons to play this mod in the first place.

I always thought the Assyrian UA was one of the best in the game...but I guess I haven't played with them much. Still... I figured the player could just completely focus on domination and constantly war with the tech leader.

On a continents map I can see Assyria still falling behind, but on pangea? Just attack the world's tech leader.

 

[SirWhale]

Acken please just keep going down the route you've already chosen with regards to AI behaviour. If Sirwhale doesn't like it, he can just play BNW because it seems that is what he's asking for, a base game experience. AI playing to win is one of the main reasons to play this mod in the first place.

Ah, that's not really fair to me. I'm fully on board with the AI playing to win - it's just that we differ on what it means to be playing to win. I think the notion can be expanded such that an AI valuing trade and diplomacy more is still playing to win.

In any case, I do like the mod in general and play exclusively on it.

 

[Acken]

People shouldn't be worried too much anyway. I like the current state. A bit rough in some area that I plan to polish but overall since my goal was to give something to those looking for difficulty I think this is achieved.

That said it's not out of the question that I make one day a version with less AI changes. I know there is a public for a version lite if you will.

But time is limited too and I'd like to "finish" it somewhat to begin with There really is a lot of work to do on civ5. More than I thought when starting the project.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

No, the mod is great. I am really liking it. But I also think diplomacy could use a little improvement because right now you know 100% the AI hates you, and that's just not fun.

Anyway, I won Domination on t247, but it was a fiendishly difficult game. But maybe if I knew more about warmongering and how the units works in later eras, I would not have to reload. Though in the end when I knew the game was won, I just rammed my units non-stop without healing them for one final push. I very much appreciate that you now actually need to build fighters to intercept AI aircraft or get anti-tank guns to fight tanks and a lot of other small things. Assyrian UA is amazing. It really kept me on top of things despite not investing into science all that much.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Oh, and remembering the Carthage game where Rome went full nuclear mode and nuked me to death, I passed nuclear non-proliferation as soon as I could. Unfortunately, Brazil managed to throw one nuke right before the vote.

 

[wayneb64]

Playing on Immortal I am always behind the AIs by 5-10 techs, but I always seem to have hope that I can catch up. The problem is that planes and nukes are just too OP when the AI gets them. With ground units you can use tactics to counter them somewhat, but the AI goes from one plane smacking you to 8 planes tearing up all your units in just a few turns and there is no way to counter it. AA are just to far up the tree.

On a different note, how is it that two caravels where unable to kill one priest in the ocean? You would think a civilian in the water should be sinkable with only one unit.

 

[Chum]

On a different note, how is it that two caravels where unable to kill one priest in the ocean? You would think a civilian in the water should be sinkable with only one unit.

This is by far the most frustrating thing. Melee ships are completely incapable of killing civilian units in water. AI hates me? Who cares. But why can't I kill his prophet or his workers on the water with a trireme?

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Playing on Immortal I am always behind the AIs by 5-10 techs.

Play Assyria. Seriously, I think they are my favorite civ for domination on Deity now. Ever since I played community deity game with them, their UA felt amazing to crush the AI and stay on top of tech. Honestly, I do not know if I could pull this win without Assyrian UA. So good. Apparently, it also works on CS because I got Penicillin from conquering Valetta.

One thing that bothered me this game was Pedro running away with tourism and culture AND taking out Attila and having a carpet of units and nuclear weapons. Aren't culture peacemongers supposed to e easy victims?

Also, something happened to Ethiopian mehal sefari carpet... maybe because I sold him a few Zulu cities for 400+ gpt, he got negative and had to disband his army? And that's why he DoW'ed me — to avoid paying? Well regardless, his land dwindled down significantly, so thankfully it was easy.

Another thing that bothered me is that anti-aircraft guns deal more damage than tanks or infantry in melee combat. What?! How am I supposed to get rid of them, if they kill any units with ease and stand too far for ranged units to get them? I was lucky to have tanks and modern armor to just roll over Ethiopian cities because those anti-aircraft guns were kicking ass.

 

[wayneb64]

Play Assyria. Seriously, I think they are my favorite civ for domination on Deity now. Ever since I played community deity game with them, their UA felt amazing to crush the AI and stay on top of tech. Honestly, I do not know if I could pull this win without Assyrian UA. So good.

I play quick random small continents, random because it keeps it fresh adapting my strategy to match land and UU/UA. If I roll Assyria, maybe I will beat Immortal someday. I think quick makes things harder, as do continents (I play the new balanced map). Small is the only setting that makes things a bit easier. I beat Emperor every time after a game or two to get used to this mod. Immortal is a much higher bar so if I manage to clear it someday it will be cool, but it's tons of fun until the planes start flying. I have survived that part a few times, but then the nuke plane flies over and it's ALT F4 time.

 

[consentient]

Thanks for all the recent comments, and thanks to adcarrymaikai for playing my game. I will look at his save. But Chum raises an interesting question about civilian units and melee attacks.

My personal preference would be for all civilian units to be capturable.

 

[Acken]

Capturable is probably out of my reach code wise. The reason why its hard to kill a civilian has to do with the fact the game gives the same embarked strength to all units.

I can look for coding a solution. Maybe the strngth of the unit divided by 2 instead of the weird current code.

Some of the concerns for late game warfare are worth looking into

 

[Civilopedian]

Capturable is probably out of my reach code wise. The reason why its hard to kill a civilian has to do with the fact the game gives the same embarked strength to all units.

I can look for coding a solution. Maybe the strngth of the unit divided by 2 instead of the weird current code.

Some of the concerns for late game warfare are worth looking into

Hi Acken

1) There is a mod out there which lets you capture Great People and Settlers and it works with this mod. I know because I have it. Should be in the steam workshop if anyone is interested.

2) I have a problem with the mod.

The first time I opened the mod it was set to Demigod difficulty as default. I didn't know what it was and wanted to try your mod on Prince to test it out. It does make Prince a touch more difficult but still it's a walkover overall fyi. Of course you probably wasn't thinking of Prince when making the mod. I really like the mod however. I appreciated the addition of the word "truly" before "free great person" and the changes to pantheons. If you could add more specific descriptions on +x% City growth vs plain growth and universalise the "truly" free great person where offered that would be most welcome! As I understand it, the growth in Swords Into Plowshares and growth in the pantheon Fertility Rites is not the same as the growth in Tradition or in the Temple of Artemis. This needs to be made explicit or the growth needs to be universalised as raw rather than some raw growth, some growth to surplus.

Anyway, the problem is that Demigod disappeared from selection as soon as I selected another difficulty. Let me know if this can be fixed, aside from uninstalling/reinstalling, which I will try. Perhaps it's a bug that can be fixed later?

 

[beetle]

The reason why its hard to kill a civilian has to do with the fact the game gives the same embarked strength to all units.

Definitely a problem with the base game and not your mod. There is at least one non-embarked scenario where civilians have higher defensive strength than contemporary melee units, but I forget the specifics. Maybe workers holding up against early ranged attacks?

 

[Acken]

Hi Acken

1) There is a mod out there which lets you capture Great People and Settlers and it works with this mod. I know because I have it. Should be in the steam workshop if anyone is interested.

2) I have a problem with the mod.

The first time I opened the mod it was set to Demigod difficulty as default. I didn't know what it was and wanted to try your mod on Prince to test it out. It does make Prince a touch more difficult but still it's a walkover overall fyi. Of course you probably wasn't thinking of Prince when making the mod. I really like the mod however. I appreciated the addition of the word "truly" before "free great person" and the changes to pantheons. If you could add more specific descriptions on +x% City growth vs plain growth and universalise the "truly" free great person where offered that would be most welcome! As I understand it, the growth in Swords Into Plowshares and growth in the pantheon Fertility Rites is not the same as the growth in Tradition or in the Temple of Artemis. This needs to be made explicit or the growth needs to be universalised as raw rather than some raw growth, some growth to surplus.

Anyway, the problem is that Demigod disappeared from selection as soon as I selected another difficulty. Let me know if this can be fixed, aside from uninstalling/reinstalling, which I will try. Perhaps it's a bug that can be fixed later?

Are you selecting difficulties from the quick menu or from the advanced setup. The quick menu doesnt display the correct names for difficulties until you select them. Advanced setup however should work fine.

 

[Civilopedian]

Are you selecting difficulties from the quick menu or from the advanced setup. The quick menu doesnt display the correct names for difficulties until you select them. Advanced setup however should work fine.

Yes thank you that worked.

What do you think of my suggestions?