Adding more Yields? [IMPLEMENTED]

[ConjurerDragon]

I voted no - not because I do not want any yield or bonus to be added, but because I felt it would be too much to add a dozen or more.

WtP already has far more yields and bonus resources than the original game or the predecessor mods and is not easy to get into for a first player for all the options and different goods and their effects, e.g. on health

In a 2plot game cities cover so much land that they would better be described as colonies (e.g. Virginia instead of Richmond) and can produce more than enough food in the areas of early colonization. Even settling around deserts becomes more easy if you can use 2 instead of 1 plots to get that saltresource that currently only exists in deserts far away from the East Coast. Adding more bonus resources (e.g. in deserts we already had oasis for the occasional bit of more food) in addition to using 2plot generally would mean that the need to transport food to cities with few arable land might be diminished or vanish completely which should not happen (e.g in deserts or mountain ranges only villages of a few colonists should be viable, cities only with food imported from towns in lush areas).

 

[raystuttgart]

It will not be implemented in WTP core mod.

There is no clear community majority. (40% of community voting against it is too much.)
Team members also voted with "no". ("Team member vetos" can not be overruled.)

 

[modmod]

It will not be implemented in WTP core mod.

As for me I am interested if it will be implemented as a submod.
At least will try it.

 

[raystuttgart]

As for me I am interested if it will be implemented as a submod.

Nothing I will do in my private mod will ever be published if it is not published by WTP team.
My private WTP modmod will not become a competition to WTP core mod.

Once it is published in WTP core mod, other modders or mod-modders may use it of course.
(But again, the only mod that is allowed to originally publish my content is WTP core mod.)

I will myself thus also never publish my private mod.
(And I would be quite angry if somebody else who accidently has access - other than WTP team - would.)

 

[schueler]

Nothing I will do in my private mod will ever be published if it is not published by WTP team.

I will myself thus also never publish my private mod.
(And I would be quite angry if somebody else - other than WTP team - would.)

I've just been wondering about just this and there is already your answer. I have to confess, this saddens me. But so it goes.

 

[Nightinggale]

Nothing I will do in my private mod will ever be published if it is not published by WTP team.

I will not say that won't happen, but at the same time I won't say that it will happen. It depends on so many factors, which are yet unknown.

I have to confess, this saddens me. But so it goes.

It saddens me too. We don't have enough modders as it is and dividing the modders like this risks us spreading too thin. I would like to somehow collect everything into one mod, but or technical reasons a game option won't solve this. The approach with two DLL files didn't work well and wouldn't really solve the problem here either. In other words any technical solution to avoid completely forking the mod would have to be something unlike what we have done in the past. It should also avoid the common path towards death of modmods as WTP progress in releases.

In short: I wouldn't say I'm in an easy position right now, but I don't feel lost either.

 

[Tugboatspotter]

It is disappointing for me as well.

I think there should have been longer for people to discuss this feature before declaring it dead. There was every chance people might have changed their opinion as ideas were introduced, rather then asking people to vote straightaway

 

[raystuttgart]

I think there should have been longer for people to discuss this feature before declaring it dead.

A team member voted with "no".
There was nothing to discuss anymore.

 

[Tugboatspotter]

A team member voted with "no".
There was nothing to discuss anymore.

That is fair enough.

Since the work being done on the terrain overhaul was dependent on this feature, does that mean the terrain overhaul won't be included in the core mod either?

 

[raystuttgart]

... does that mean the terrain overhaul won't be included in the core mod either?

It is not clarified yet.
We will see if it gets integrated in WTP core mod, once I am finished.

 

[Fürstbischof]

Keeping in mind that a future "tech tree" will allow us to field advanced military units based upon newly researched advanced weaponry, the blades, guns and cannons will be far more diverse than now. Instead, the 3 basic types of weapons can easily triple! Either they are removed from the two row list of yields or we need a three row list of yields.

Well, it's a good idea to think about additional yields to fill the third row now. Its introduction will take some time, since it requires revising the entire city screen which - although highly welcome - would take some additional time.

 

[Acheron81]

I voted no. There is no amount of granularity that is going to be perfect representation without a complete match up to real word - which is unplayable. You need to keep to abstraction. Maybe it is silly to use a farmer on ducks bonus resource - but there is already turkeys bonus resource. It would be weird for woadmaker to produce indigo cargo, but already a lot of cargoes are undifferentiated. Ore is tin and copper and iron, timber does not recognize difference between construction and ship timber - latter of which was also extremely important export of NA colonies.

Vote NO. This is the path to saw cargo, nails cargo, pine twig cargo, mussels cargo and venison cargo.

Coming late to the discussion but I wanted to cast a yes vote anyway. Personally I would rather see more yields even at the risk of having a few that are unpopular. There are still several historically significant goods that really ought to be in the game: Rice is an important one. Personally I would also like to see Cloth Coats (made from either dyed wool or cotton cloth and required to raise line infantry) and Pigs (raised in towns, not in pastures for those colonies with no suitable grazing land). These would not just be additional yields to trade but would add depth to gameplay. I feel like the vast majority of suggestions for new yields I've seen put forward on this forum were good or at least tolerable ideas.

If it were up to me I would create 4 rows of yields, enough for the terrain overhaul and leaving some slots open for future expansions that were voted in by the community.

 

[Tugboatspotter]

If it were up to me I would create 4 rows of yields, enough for the terrain overhaul and leaving some slots open for future expansions that were voted in by the community.

I thought the three rows of 22 was good. If only 4 new yields were added it would be 18-20-18

xx000000000000000000xx
x00000000000000000000x
xx000000000000000000xx

Leaves 10 placeholders for future expansion.

 

[raystuttgart]

Guys, it is very simple.

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There is no right or wrong in modding.
It is all about personal taste.

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Some people would like WTP to become more challenging and more realistic.
Some people are afraid of WTP becoming too tedious and too complicated.
Some people think Yield A is great and some people think A is horrible ...

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I had the same discussion already in TAC when I suggested to add more Yields.
Dozens of personal tastes and dozens of different conflicting ideas ...

Everybody wants to have something else ... And everybody thinks his idea is best.
But somebody simply needs to implement something or nothing will ever be implemented.

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Thus for me there is no point anymore to try to find a consense or to continue long discussions.
I will simply implement what I like, offer it to WTP team (and WTP supporters) and see what they do with it.

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There is no need for further discussions.
What this community needs is people actually creating stuff.
And they shall create whatever they like and however they think it is best implemented.

 

[Tugboatspotter]

There is no need for further discussions.

Maybe no need yes

...but the discussion can still go on can't it? No harm in discussing it if people are still interested in the concept.

 

[raystuttgart]

...but the discussion can still go on can't it?

You are right.
Maybe somebody else will be interested to also implement something like that.

No harm in discussing it if people are still interested in the concept.

I just want to avoid putting pressure on "minority that voted no" to still accept this.
I am not a big fan of arguing too much about different opinions.

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Generally I am not a big fan of "talk without results".
I am more a fan of "actual actions".

 

[Tugboatspotter]

I voted no - not because I do not want any yield or bonus to be added, but because I felt it would be too much to add a dozen or more.

If there was only a few yields added. I don't know - more than 1 but less than a dozen - would you still have a problem? Suppose there was 2, 3 or 4 well considered yields do you think you might come around to the idea?

WtP already has far more yields and bonus resources than the original game or the predecessor mods and is not easy to get into for a first player for all the options and different goods and their effects, e.g. on health

Why does it have to be beginner friendly? It never has been before.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

If there was only a few yields added. I don't know - more than 1 but less than a dozen - would you still have a problem? Suppose there was 2, 3 or 4 well considered yields do you think you might come around to the idea?

I have nothing at all against adding one or two yields as long as that does not mean that the view becomes too long and has to move left and right or another line of yields becomes necessary. Some of the additional bonus resources are fine as they do not add new yields but simply the existing food, fur and premium fur.

Why does it have to be beginner friendly? It never has been before.

The vanilla game of Colonization was far simpler than WtP.Adding much more to that might cater to hardcore fans but scare off people who just want to try it out.

 

[raystuttgart]

So ok, this is not "dead" anymore. - At least not for me.
I am actually working on it already in my "private version".

However, before I actually share any of that stuff, I will first finish branch "Plains".
("Plains" currently contains the "Terrain Overaul" and all the other stuff I think WTP may be interested to use.)

After branch "Plains" is finished I will start a new branch "Yields".
(In that branch the new Yields, Professions, Experts, Buildings, ... will be commited.)

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Summary:

Branch "Plains" still needs to be finished. Then branch "Yields" will start.
WTP team will decide itself what it will integrate and publish from these.

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I am talking here about a time period of several months.
So have some patience.

The only thing I can or will tell so far:
It is massive and it is glorious.

 

[raystuttgart]

A first image for the Bonus Ressource of Vanilla

• 2 new Yields: Vanilla Pod / Dried Vanilla
• Experts: Vanilla Planter / Spice Trader
• Bulding: Spice Trader's House
• Native Terrain: Shrublands

Summary:

• 1 new Bonus Ressource
• 2 new Yields
• 1 new Expert needed as Planter
  
• no new Building needed / no new Expert needed for Manufacturer