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Happiness [IMPLEMENTED]

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by raystuttgart, Feb 2, 2020.

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Is "Happiness" a concept you want to see in WTP?

  1. Yes, sounds fun and is not too complex.

    75.0%
  2. No, it is is a pointless and tedious feature.

    25.0%
  1. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    The "Profession Entertainers" was removed from the actually implemented concept.
    There is no specific profession (or building slots) for producing Happiness only.

    I realized in the implementation that it would be too much.
     
  2. mmun

    mmun Chieftain

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    I like the new happiness mechanic, I always build megacities and it's a nice new addition to manage. It adds a new layer of gameplay instead of just mindlessly adding colonists.
    - Maybe add a bonus/malus depending on food surplus/deficit?
    - The bonus for fulfilled domestic demand is ok, but boring - maybe add specific bonuses for important groups of goods? (Alcohols, tobacco, hot beverages, salt, spices, clothing?)
    - Also, I like the dynamic where slaves give unhappiness. Something really cool would be if military units stationed in the city could specifically reduce unhappiness from slavery. And the player could even be incentivised to specialise their cities in either free or slave-based economies, with founding fathers who boosted each model. You'd end up with a situation like the northern/southern US prior to the civil war.
    - I agree with the decision not to have a profession producing happiness but you won't go wrong with a building chain.
     
  3. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    I am disappointed that this feature won't be expanded with units or professions. In my view the new happiness mechanic, as it stands, is not worthwhile. It is covering the same ground as health.

    Ensuring you have domestic resources is already beneficial for your economy, so what is the point? I really can't see why this improves the game.

    I understand that the feature was maybe too ambitious, but currently it is worse than nothing. I suggest removing it completely.
     
  4. XSamatan

    XSamatan Warlord

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    Apart from Luxury Goods you still get better prices exporting refined goods. So just from the economic standpoint the domestic market is inefficient.

    The small boni from selling refined goods is a strong reason to start delivering larger settlements with those goods rather then just exporting them. As stated in other posts I would like to see a diverse set of boni and even some mali then just the +1 for every good. (And if I am allowed to dream I would wish for a automatic transport setting making transports deliver a small batch of refined goods to all settlements with a market building.

    Long story short, this feature expands the base game and gives us another layer to play with - I really like it.

    Regards
    XSamatan
     
  5. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    The domestic market is the most efficient mid-late game.

    That is why I don't see the point of the current happiness mechanic. You are already building a comprehensive domestic market.

    In practice the only difference is more micro-management because I have to leave behind a small amount of each resource for the game to register it as present. When I'm loading galleons I could do without the annoyance of having to leave stuff behind. It gets old pretty quick.
     
  6. XSamatan

    XSamatan Warlord

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    Well it seems our playstyles differ. I never have/allow high taxes in Europe therefore this market was ever the more profitable.

    If you work with the trade automation you simply set a minimum of good to be delivered at every city and watch your trains fly across the nation. Granted, to set this up it takes a high amount of click, thus it would be great if an option is included to have this local supply to the domestic markets automated.

    @Ray
    Can it be coded that if the production outweighs the demand of the domestic market, the bonus applies at once and you do not have to wait for the goods be present physically?
     
    Tugboatspotter and mmun like this.
  7. mmun

    mmun Chieftain

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    I like your suggestions. Even just a "apply import and export to all colonies" would do wonders. Mid-late game is such a clickfest.
     
  8. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    A lot could theoretically be coded if somebody invested the effort. :)
    (Currently I am taking a break from Civ4Col though - playing some other game again.)
     
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  9. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    By the way:

    For those who do not like "Happiness":

    In GlobalDefinesAlt.xml there are basically all settings available to - more or less - "deactivate" most of the feature.
    (It will still be displayed but simply do almost nothing.)
    • MIN_POP_NEG_HAPPINESS --> Simply set it to "100"
    • POP_DIVISOR_HAPPINESS --> Simply set it to "100"
    • PER_EUROPEAN_AT_WAR_UNHAPPINESS --> Simply set it to "0"
    • POP_DIVISOR_DEFENSE_UNHAPPINESS --> Simply set it to "100"
    • TAX_DIVISOR_UNHAPPINESS --> Simply set it to "100"
    • BASE_CHANCE_UNREST_UNHAPPINESS --> Simply set it to "0"
    • BASE_CHANCE_FESTIVITIES_HAPPINESS --> Simply set it to "0"
    Happiness from Buildings can be deactiveated as well.
    (You can modifiy Civ4BuildingInfos.xml and remove all entries for Happiness.)
    They look like this:
    Code:
                    <YieldChange>
                        <YieldType>YIELD_HAPPINESS</YieldType>
                        <iYieldChange>X</iYieldChange>
                    </YieldChange>
    
    That should basically do the trick. :dunno:

    There will hardly be any Happiness or Unhappiness created.
    It should be so little that all the features (e.g. Learning by Doing, Slaves Fleeing, Immigration Rate, ...) are hardly affected anymore.
    Festivities and Unrests will be totally deactivated.

    These things however will still generate a bit of Happiness.
    (However it will hardly impact the game anymore.)
    • Happiness from Domestic Market will still be generated. (There is no XML setting for it, since it simply counts the Domestic Goods provied for Domestic Demand.)
    • Happiness from Treaties with other Europeans will still be generated. (There is no XML setting for it, since it simply counts the Treaties.)
    • Slavery will still cause a bit of Unhappiness will still be generated. (There is no XML setting for it, since it simply counts the Slaves.)
    Edit:
    For these settings to take effect it will require a new game though.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
    Tugboatspotter likes this.
  10. Swarbs

    Swarbs Emperor

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    I've always found that once I get my production fully up to speed, in the mid/late game, the European market prices decline quite rapidly and the domestic market becomes much more profitable. Particularly if you build higher level markets and have large colonies - I play with 2-tile borders so often have 30+ colonists in major colonies by the late game.
     
  11. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    This is the one thing that needs to be changed.

    Having played further, I actually think the new happiness mechanic is very well implemented. I would have no problem with it if this change could be realized.
     
    AnAmericanCommunist likes this.
  12. lethiel

    lethiel Streaming Col at https://www.twitch.tv/lethiel01

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    It seems to me like a bit of an insignificant detail to worry about. Anyway I think your citizens would only be happy after they receive their goods right - not if they merely expect to receive them next turn?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
  13. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    The domestic economy already works on the principle of expectation (next turn production is factored in). The suggested change to happiness would bring consistency.

    Also, this is essentially a quality of life matter. Currently you have to leave resources behind (for happiness benefit), even if that colony produces them. Personally I don't want to have to split goods when I am loading galleons. It is tedious and not something that I had to do before.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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  14. Swarbs

    Swarbs Emperor

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    I don't think that's how it works - the domestic economy sells goods at the start of the turn, whereas production takes place at the end. So the domestic economy doesn't anticipate production, it just reflects the production which happened in the previous turn.

    I think that's also how happiness works - the happiness from the domestic market for a given turn is based on how many goods were sold at the start of that turn. So you don't need to keep stockpiles of goods being produced, as produced goods will be sold at the start of each turn.
     
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  15. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    Yup, I didn't give the best explanation of domestic goods. I agree with what you said.

    Happiness doesn't work like that though. Load the goods onto a ship and you will see happiness decrease instantly as you remove resources in demand. So you do actually appear to have to keep a stockpile, which is why I don't like it.

    Does the game still calculate the happiness from goods produced that turn? if it does, then the information presented to the player is not accurate. If not, then the mechanic is inconsistent with the domestic market and is not player-friendly.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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  16. Swarbs

    Swarbs Emperor

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    If that's the case then it sounds like the opposite problem - the game is anticipating the player not being able to fulfill the demand, rather than determining whether the demand is actually fulfilled when the domestic market sells goods.

    I agree that's not a particularly player-friendly way to show it.
     
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  17. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    In summary: there is ambiguity where the expected happiness value doesn't match the actual value.

    If the current production could be added to the calculation then the ambiguity would be resolved.
     
  18. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    I am not really sure what you are trying to say with "expected happiness". :undecide:
    Please explain. (Ideally with Screenshots.)

    I explicitly did not want to recalculate Happiness / Unhappiness constantly in real time, because it would have impacted performance.
    That is related to the fact that Happiness / Unhappiness result from so many different factors (Yiels, Diplomacy, Slaves, ...).

    Whenever you leave and reenter City Screen Happiness / Unhappiness should be calculated correctly.
    Happiness / Unhappiness is also correctly calculated every new turn (actually in turn transition).
     
  19. Tugboatspotter

    Tugboatspotter Warlord

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    I will give an example of what I mean:

    Suppose I have a city with +3 happiness and it produces goods providing some of that happiness (lets say cloth, wine, rum and leather)

    I start to load all of those goods onto a galleon, and I see my happiness reduce by 1 each time (in real time) until I have all my cloth, wine, rum and leather on my galleon. My happiness now reads as -1. (I can exit and enter my city and it still shows -1)

    I click next turn and my city is now back to +3 happiness (because more has been produced)

    What was my true happiness at the end of turn? -1 or 3?

    1) If it is 3 then I am not being presented with accurate information, since it is not including the forthcoming production in the calculation.

    2) If it really is -1, then it presents micro-management problems ie requiring the player to leave a small amount of goods in a city despite it being produced every turn. This would also appear to be inconsistent with the existing production mechanic.

    Anyway, it sounds to me that the likely cause of confusion is this: "Whenever you leave and reenter City Screen Happiness / Unhappiness should be calculated correctly." is not working as intended.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  20. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    It is not the production and not the actual domestic sales that really count for Happiness effects of "Domestic Market".
    It is the "Domestic Demand Supply" (storage being high enough to satisfy the domestic demand) at the end of the turn.

    A Player turn always consists of: "Player Begin Turn Processing" -> "Player Input Phase" -> "Player End Turn Processing".
    I know that this is difficult for players to understand because they only think about "Player Input Phase".

    "End of the turn" not being when "Player presses Button" but when all "internal calculations" happen after that and control is switched to next player.
    (There is a lot of stuff going on after the player presses the "End Turn". The game of course needs to process the players inputs and calculate the results.)

    Happiness is displayed in City Screen only as Forecast. (Only looking 1 level deep into feature dependency chain.)
    It does not yet consider goods that have not been produced and thus can not yet be sold considering Happiness effects of Domestic Demand.

    The actual Happiness calculation is the absolut last things that happens during player input processing after the player presses "End Turn".
    (Everything else - Production, Custom House, Domestic Market, ... resulting in actual current Storage - happen before.)

    If you always leave a small storage of the goods sold on domestic market, there is no "ambiguity" probem.
    In that case the values displayed at the end of the turn are exactly the ones applied in the logic.

    If you always completely empty storage of goods AND production of goods is big enough to satisfy domestic demand,
    then yes, in that case there might be some ambiguity because Happiness happens last after all other.

    But I can not change that without risking performance impacts. :dunno:

    Otherwise I would most likely ruin performance, because calculating "Forecasts of Forecasts of Forecasts of ...".
    Calculating a Happiness Forecast on top of a Storage Forecast on on top of a Domestic Sales Forecast on top of a Production Forecast and a Custom House Sales Forecast after ...

    Please understand that there is a huge sequence of logic happening after you press "End Turn".
    The result is only certain (completely determined) after all of that logic has been processed.

    Summary:

    For being save considering Happiness, leave a small buffer in storage of the goods sold on Domestic Market.
    (There will only be ambiguity if you completely empty storage of a domestic market good and also produce it in the city as well.)

    If you know that production will be higher than demand anyways, then you do not have to.
    It simply cannot display it "perfectly" in the Happiness Forecast.
    There is too much "forecasting in there before" and I am afraid of impacting performance too much.

    From a Gameplay Perspective:

    Your people feel save and happy if they see you provide enough supply (storage) of goods to satisfy their market demands.
    They know "Hey next turn we will still be able to get ... on the market. There is no shortage.".

    --------

    Yes, it requires Micromanagement. But that is exactly what I intended. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2020
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