Moderator Action: This is enough. No more mudslinging.
You can freely discuss the ruling and the rules, but you can't continue this mudslinging.
You can freely discuss the ruling and the rules, but you can't continue this mudslinging.
Administrator Ruling #2 - COMPLETE
- Thread starter Ginger_Ale
- Start date
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
That is all they can offer in this case , mudslinging. No rule improvement has been presented, no law has been broken. The Moderators know exactly what happened within Team TNT, and they knew what really took place.
I like "mudslinging" better than "flaming." Can you change the terms in the forum rules 
?
I'm with my team about the "spirit of the game." You obviously thought you were doing something "iffy" and instead of consulting GA or RM, you tried to hide it.
This is also definately misleading. So no more "no laws were broken" because the one on the first post has been.
?I'm with my team about the "spirit of the game." You obviously thought you were doing something "iffy" and instead of consulting GA or RM, you tried to hide it.
This is also definately misleading. So no more "no laws were broken" because the one on the first post has been.
Sorry Own, you are wrong - it isn't your fault, however, just you could not see that RM and I were in full knowledge of the plans and at the time discussed them and agreed that their intent upon renaming cities was not for trickery, it was for strategy. Unfortunately it seems it came across as part trickery.
To all: Please do not post in this thread unless it is strictly on the topic of: spirit of the game, rule 2.4, rule change proposals (though we will have a new thread on this soon), or something related to the first post.
To all: Please do not post in this thread unless it is strictly on the topic of: spirit of the game, rule 2.4, rule change proposals (though we will have a new thread on this soon), or something related to the first post.
You are wrong because based on the info you had, but "it isn't your fault" because you didn't have access to info for the whole picture.
I meant it isn't your fault that you were wrong in your assumption. No worries.
I meant it isn't your fault that you were wrong in your assumption. No worries.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
reading through everything.....The first person to publicly accuse TNT of renaming a city was......Provolution here. Gasp..... Is that a sign of a guilty conscience. I regret that by delving into the numbers of the game that certain teams came to this conclusion, but we didn't publicly accuse anyone in case we were wrong.
There is proof that something fishy was going on. We were just wanting to make sure that nothing illicit was going on. I join Whomp in the sadness of the recent stopage that has come over the MTDG.
There is proof that something fishy was going on. We were just wanting to make sure that nothing illicit was going on. I join Whomp in the sadness of the recent stopage that has come over the MTDG.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I did not accuse any team of anything, in particular not my own, I sense no guilt either. I did not answer anything either way. However, several things may actually have taken place on our side, and frankly, as no rule has been broken, this should end right here.
I see no posts from my side confirming or disconfirming the allegations. I am certain this was made public as a part of a defamation campaign for diplomatic purposes and as a joint intelligence gathering campaign on another continent before anyone met.
The Game moderators know the full story, and it is not what Team KISS in particular thinks. Frankly, I would rather question the motives of bringing this in a public thread. Team KISS has here proven an interest and willingness to change the outcome of the game based on false accusations and a strategy of seeking to provoke another team to disclose their domestic development.
However, I have no issues with Team MIA and Team Doughnut in this regard, they did not seek to spin this case for diplomatic gains, intelligence gathering or mudslinging. Bullying other teams like this to submit internal information will not be tolerated, and we will not give in to that cheap pressure.
I see no posts from my side confirming or disconfirming the allegations. I am certain this was made public as a part of a defamation campaign for diplomatic purposes and as a joint intelligence gathering campaign on another continent before anyone met.
The Game moderators know the full story, and it is not what Team KISS in particular thinks. Frankly, I would rather question the motives of bringing this in a public thread. Team KISS has here proven an interest and willingness to change the outcome of the game based on false accusations and a strategy of seeking to provoke another team to disclose their domestic development.
However, I have no issues with Team MIA and Team Doughnut in this regard, they did not seek to spin this case for diplomatic gains, intelligence gathering or mudslinging. Bullying other teams like this to submit internal information will not be tolerated, and we will not give in to that cheap pressure.
Provo, for at least the third or fifth time, this is not an attempt to deface you or your team. Please do not be so paranoid.
And yes, we know the full story. Therefore, how do you know the full story is not what Team KISS thinks?
This was brought to public (as a request of two teams) to solve this problem and future ones that may be like it by editing the rules.
Please stop the discussion of what OTHER teams have said. Make your case, simple. No need to say what the other teams have said / haven't said / have done / haven't done.
And yes, we know the full story. Therefore, how do you know the full story is not what Team KISS thinks?
This was brought to public (as a request of two teams) to solve this problem and future ones that may be like it by editing the rules.
So editing the save, hexxing it, using disallowed utilities and sending spies to other forums is OK with you? Interesting.Strider said:
Please stop the discussion of what OTHER teams have said. Make your case, simple. No need to say what the other teams have said / haven't said / have done / haven't done.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
The real issue here is getting us to define "the spirit of the game".
This post is my personal opinion and not the views of team MIA.
Provolution, I really wish you had meant this. Every time you post, you come across as so arrogant that it really makes this game a lot more antagonistic than it should be.
Anyway, the question is, did TNT intend to mislead or confuse by renaming a town. I obviously cannot determine TNTs intent, but it seems to me that it should have been obvious to them that it would mislead and confuse because people are watching F-11. It should have been equally obvious to them that it would be easily possible to avoid misleading and confusing by making it clear in the city name that it was renamed. The fact that they chose not to do this means that they even if it wasnt their explicit intent, they certainly didnt mind misleading and confusing. Therefore, I believe TNT clearly broke the spirit of the rule.
And, yes, the spirit matters. In part it matters because we are not lawyers looking at a legal document for loopholes, we are playing a game that is meant to be fair and fun. If you must have a legal reason, then
So, a rule is broken. The punishment given in that rule is way too severe for the circumstances. Personally I dont believe any punishment is really necessary because no real harm was done (except the time we wasted on unnecessary speculation). I dont want any team to win or lose because of rules violations, but I really would like to see some acknowledgment from TNT that what they did was wrong. If they cant see that, then I think unfortunately that there must be some punishment to deter this type of behavior in the future.
Provolution said:
Provolution, I really wish you had meant this. Every time you post, you come across as so arrogant that it really makes this game a lot more antagonistic than it should be.
Anyway, the question is, did TNT intend to mislead or confuse by renaming a town. I obviously cannot determine TNTs intent, but it seems to me that it should have been obvious to them that it would mislead and confuse because people are watching F-11. It should have been equally obvious to them that it would be easily possible to avoid misleading and confusing by making it clear in the city name that it was renamed. The fact that they chose not to do this means that they even if it wasnt their explicit intent, they certainly didnt mind misleading and confusing. Therefore, I believe TNT clearly broke the spirit of the rule.
Provolution said:
And, yes, the spirit matters. In part it matters because we are not lawyers looking at a legal document for loopholes, we are playing a game that is meant to be fair and fun. If you must have a legal reason, then
So, a rule is broken. The punishment given in that rule is way too severe for the circumstances. Personally I dont believe any punishment is really necessary because no real harm was done (except the time we wasted on unnecessary speculation). I dont want any team to win or lose because of rules violations, but I really would like to see some acknowledgment from TNT that what they did was wrong. If they cant see that, then I think unfortunately that there must be some punishment to deter this type of behavior in the future.
Verdict: The challenge of this ruling is to see whether Team TNT intentionally tried to mislead opponents by changing, or switching, the names of some of their cities, and whether they broke the "spirit of the game" and fairness pledge by doing so.
After a review of the evidence, RegentMan and myself have concluded the following:
Team TNT did not rename their cities in order to cause confusion or to mislead their opponents. In hindsight, we can now see what has happened, but at the time of the decision, this was not apparent. It was not their intention to cause all this; they wanted to switch city names around. This was a legal action they took, as rule 2.4 pertains to diplomacy (it is unclear). As such, the following is the 'verdict' and result of this investigation:
-Team TNT suffers no in or out of game punishment or warning for their actions.
-A new discussion about the 'spirit of the game' and rule 2.4 will be started with the purpose of preventing this from happening again. One aim of it will be to decide if cities' name changes will be documented or not.
-A formal notice to clear this all up: Team TNT's cities' names have been switched around.
To all non-TNTers: Do not use this against them, confusion was not their goal from this process.
End of thread. If you have an appeal to this rule, please PM RegentMan and myself. The aim of this is to please everyone while being fair and rule-abiding.
After a review of the evidence, RegentMan and myself have concluded the following:
Team TNT did not rename their cities in order to cause confusion or to mislead their opponents. In hindsight, we can now see what has happened, but at the time of the decision, this was not apparent. It was not their intention to cause all this; they wanted to switch city names around. This was a legal action they took, as rule 2.4 pertains to diplomacy (it is unclear). As such, the following is the 'verdict' and result of this investigation:
-Team TNT suffers no in or out of game punishment or warning for their actions.
-A new discussion about the 'spirit of the game' and rule 2.4 will be started with the purpose of preventing this from happening again. One aim of it will be to decide if cities' name changes will be documented or not.
-A formal notice to clear this all up: Team TNT's cities' names have been switched around.
To all non-TNTers: Do not use this against them, confusion was not their goal from this process.
End of thread. If you have an appeal to this rule, please PM RegentMan and myself. The aim of this is to please everyone while being fair and rule-abiding.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
With this very anticipated and fair ruling, Team TNT will shortly come with an announcement.
vbraun
Raytracing
Here we go:
Team TNT had an internal poll twice confirming our capital should be Dancing Banana, this can be confirmed by game admins. This was done for team culture and identity reasons, and a vast majority confirmed this when the city was challenged. As F11 rightly shows the five highest ranked culturally cities, this information was open for everyone to see, and we never underestimated the other teams or ever considered to keep our dear original capital name, which was a domestic team culture issue.
Team TNT thought in fairness that renaming cities and units before ANY civilizations met was in the spirit of the game. It is certainly not in the spirit of TNT to initiate diplomacy like this prior to teams have met, in order to limit one teams diplomatic options on another continent. We do not apologize for the pre-meet city renaming as we did this for totally different intentions, which was team culture. However, the lesson we take from this, is that we will NEVER rename anything in the future but conquered cities and workers, and we consider this is a fair proposal for a new renaming law.
Now it in the spirit of the game lets move on!
Team TNT had an internal poll twice confirming our capital should be Dancing Banana, this can be confirmed by game admins. This was done for team culture and identity reasons, and a vast majority confirmed this when the city was challenged. As F11 rightly shows the five highest ranked culturally cities, this information was open for everyone to see, and we never underestimated the other teams or ever considered to keep our dear original capital name, which was a domestic team culture issue.
Team TNT thought in fairness that renaming cities and units before ANY civilizations met was in the spirit of the game. It is certainly not in the spirit of TNT to initiate diplomacy like this prior to teams have met, in order to limit one teams diplomatic options on another continent. We do not apologize for the pre-meet city renaming as we did this for totally different intentions, which was team culture. However, the lesson we take from this, is that we will NEVER rename anything in the future but conquered cities and workers, and we consider this is a fair proposal for a new renaming law.
Now it in the spirit of the game lets move on!
