Advanced tips/rules from the Masters (And Others)

[Longasc]

Communism is superb for large empires in C3C due to sheer production power and low corruption.

Republic is even better than in PTW due to some unit support. Democracy is usually a waste and not worth the Anarchy period, as high war weariness and low advantages over Republic make it not really desirable.

Use Dave McW's "Slingshot" Strategies -> try to research Philosophy first and get early Monarchy or Republic, or be the first to get into a new age. Works still on Demigod.

The Expansionist Trait is the stronger the harder your difficulty level.

Mine green, irrigate brown. Have always a lot of workers to improve your terrain. Learn to know the value of terrain squares and which to work first (crackers article in the War Academy)

Standard start: Warrior - Warrior - Warrior - Settler. Expansionist: Two Scouts, one Warrior, for garrison purpose and happiness. Always try to make contacts early, seafaring civs should build a Curragh early.

Artillery units and bombers are the great equalizers to kill in dozens to one ratios in your favor.

Do not automate workers before the late game and railroads. The governor is only good for mood management, and some players even then prefer to micromanage this. I personally play with Mood Management on most of the time Demigod level and it works.

Finally, there are exceptions to rules of thumb, and you still will need to understand them and think for yourself. But they are good and useful for learning how to play.

 

[jackreese2004]

Thats great advice Longasc.
I think this thread is going to help out a lot of players.

 

[Arathorn]

I think tips like Longasc's will ultimately hurt the development of a lot of players. "Mine brown, irrigate green" is one of those that works in about 30% of the situations -- enough so it doesn't look like obviously bad advice, but few enough that it ultimately hurts players because it encourages them not to think. Following that advice kills any chance of city specialization (no settler factories using that advice), kills cities with common land situations (e.g. flood plains and desert), etc.

Same with initial build orders. Might be right one game in four...enough so that it isn't obviously bad advice, but it's wrong more often than it's right.

Bad advice ultimately leads to bad gameplay. Instead of trying to get some rule of thumb (which, heck, the AI could do), try thinking and understanding the game and then playing it well.

Arathorn

 

[sandmandh]

Some tips like expansion methods and settler farms have worked really well for me, others I have taken with a pinch of salt. As usual, one has to know when to identify that pearl in a clump of seeweed. Then of course you take the pearl, try it out for yourself, and decide whether to throw it back. Also without tips, one tends to make the same mistakes over and over, and this can throw new light on a old theme.

 

[jackreese2004]

Arathon, I appreciate your comments on longasc's post...
Please remember that each and every tip isn't necessarily COMPLETLY explained or true in EVERY situation. Maybe you should have posted reasons/examples that "Mine Green and Irrigate Brown" has "exceptions" and then explain your reasoning.
I do feel that the rule "Mine green and Irrigate brown" WILL help some Civ players. And that is my purpose in this thread.
1) Have players post some great Tips, for the benefit of the masses.
2) Have players criticise/improve on the Tips here presented in this thread.
(I just felt you were kinda tough on longascs tip)

jackreese

 

[Longasc]

It is just that I have a little problem with Arathorn. It is a personal thing, I did not like his way of commenting the suggestions of players that tried to change the worker system for Civ4. I was a bit tought to him.

This is why he is a bit harsh now.

You should leave personal things out of this thread Arathorn, I think this is unfair.

 

[Tomoyo]

I think he's been kinda grouchy lately... Maybe it's because Sirian's back?

I think this should have been a PM but I don't know who I would send it to.

 

[danirus]

during the expansion phase,i usually keep an eye on the culture bar(press F8 and check) to know when the AIs are starting to build cultural improvements. it can be good to counter by building that temple you were planning on later. of course, this is optional according to playing style as everything else but i prefer to keep up in cultural development because i HATE when my cities flip to the AI.

build a couple of curraghs a soon as you get alphabet(seafaring start with it) and triremes a soon as you get mapmaking. it will pay off in the long run since you always find some civs faster than the land way. the galley can be good to move settlers, either along the coast as it goes quicker than the land way(again) or to islands.

road connection to your capital helps much against corruption.

build embassies in the civs you want to stay friendly with as soon as you get writing or meets a new civ, it makes them nicer towards you.

 

[The Lombard]

It is just that I have a little problem with Arathorn. It is a personal thing, I did not like his way of commenting the suggestions of players that tried to change the worker system for Civ4. I was a bit tought to him.

This is why he is a bit harsh now.

You should leave personal things out of this thread Arathorn, I think this is unfair.

Maybe that is true - I'm not party to the personal conlict so I couldn't possibly comment - but he does have a fair point. I think he slightly exagerates how often these 'rules of thumb' will be wrong, but he is right when he says that they won't always be right and will be wrong often enough to damage a player's empire if they invariably stick to them without adapting to changes in the situation.

IMHO they are basically guidelines and should come with the caveat 'BUT they won't always be right' and maybe some examples to show when they are wrong. This would show a new player that the game is deep and complex and that there are no snappy cover-all rules that will be correct for every situation - which is one of the most important (and moreover enjoyable!) things about Civ III.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

I don't know, I'm gonna stick to my guns here.

The one gameplay tip I posted? Arty. Lots and lots of arty. You can't go wrong. (well, not easily at least)

I've found it to be as close to a universal rule (emperor+) as there is.

 

[Geofflightning]

Here's something for the beginning of the game. Try to waste as few shields, food, and commerce as possible. Things I notice a lot are maybe a wheat on grassland bonus and a bonus grassland both in the capital radius. I switch back and forth between both in order to minimize wasted food, since 7 turns at 3 fpt is not exactly 20, and 3 spt will not make the 10 shields for warrior. That will save quite a few food and shields in the beginning of the game, where it matters. Saving commerce is easy...readjust your science bar right before you learn a new tech. Hopefully this will help beginners, and not discourage that whole "thought" stuff.

 

[morchuflex]

It is just that I have a little problem with Arathorn(...) You should leave personal things out of this thread Arathorn, I think this is unfair.

I'm not even remotely interested in personal conflicts, but I'll stand with Arathorn and the Lombard on this topic.
Some of the advice I've read on this thread is simply misleading. For instance, the very idea of an ideal building list in new cities (like "warrior - warrior - settler") is absurd.
If you ask me what I build first in a new city, i'll answer: "this depends on hundreds of parameters":
- if my civ starts with pottery, I'll probably build a granary ASAP, at least in core cities and if there are forrests around to chop to quicken the process.
- If I'm Seafaring, a curragh is a worthwhile investment for early contact and fast exploration.
- If I have neighbors, I'll build more warriors to locate them ASAP and try to occupy choke points before them. Conversely, if I'm alone, I'll forget troops for now.
- If luxuries are in sight, military police is less important, but workers to connect them are essential. Without luxuries, you'll probably need 2 MP's and maybe temples, as your cities grow.
- If I'm stuck on an all marsh / jungle island, I'll build a granary, maybe a couple settlers (only if there are decent sites), then dozens (literally) of workers.
So much for the "ideal building queue".

Furthermore, as I have already said earlier, a tip's value depends on the level on which it is experienced. A Chieftain player will probably say stg like: "I always build 3 warriors for exploration and MP, then start building the Pyramids before expanding, so that all my cities start with a granary". But try this on Emperor or above, and your enemies will have a good laugh.

So, forget the very idea of applying "tips from the great masters". Masters are great not because they know a lot of tips but because they THINK a lot.

 

[Longasc]

Quoting myself...

Finally, there are exceptions to rules of thumb, and you still will need to understand them and think for yourself. But they are good and useful for learning how to play.

I do not claim rules of thumb to be set in stone. Maybe that some here did not read the end of my posting at all.

Still, I have some more rules of thumb - with the usual "it depends", but still following the KISS-principle: Keep it short and simple.

- Chose the civ according to your playstyle: Civs with early offensive UU's are better for warmongering.

- use Qitai's trick to keep the AI happy: If they do not have the money to pay full for a tech, grant them some 100 gold e.g. and get it all back for the Tech you are going to sell -> you do not only get some gold, but the AI will shift to polite or gracious.

- never leave a city undefended. Even if you just made a peace treaty, the AI can hardly resist to capture it.

- in governments that do not have money rushing, scrap units to hurry improvements.
This works especially well with bombers in communism if you want to create a beachhead on an enemy continent: Fly some bombers to a captured city, rush an airport with around 6 bombers and next turn your troops can transport there in no time.

- build tighter. You will only need 12 city squares for the longest part of the game, and you will hardly even use all 12 in the more important early game. So CXXC Spacings are usually better than CXXXXC spacings that will give you maximum productions in the not so important late game.

- forget about many wonders: Building a wonder in the ancient age is the more a waste, the higher the difficulty. You could built tons of improvements for it and you might waste all shields for nothing if you get beaten in the wonder race. So take a close look at cost/benefit: The Statue of Zeus is a very nice ancient wonder to have and not overly expensive e.g..

- Read Ision's articles about different civs: They might give you some nice hints why certain civs will do well under which conditions.

- I is always good to make others fight your enemy, too.

- Bombers based on Carriers are great for pillaging ressource tiles -> you might stop the enemy from producing modern units.

- ask in the CivFanatics IRC-Chat: irc://irc-chat.net/CivFanatics
(irc.irc-chat.net, #CivFanatics)

 

[Tomoyo]

I think the best and only good rule of thumb is that rules of thumbs are usually wrong.

The one gameplay tip I posted? Arty. Lots and lots of arty. You can't go wrong. (well, not easily at least)

What about Bombers? My rule of thumb triumphs over yours... muhwahahaha.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Well, let's see.

I can get cats with Math, about halfway through the AA.
You can get bombers with Flight, most of the way through the IA.

Don't know if it's that much of a triumph...

 

[Tomoyo]

Lots of cats don't help too much. All they are good for is defense, unless you have a lot of them. Arty only comes in the middle of the IA.

(and in C3C, Bombers are lethal)

And sometimes, all you need is a very large production base. Then, all you need are attack units.

 

[dgfred]

I think the best and only good rule of thumb is that rules of thumbs are usually wrong.
What about Bombers? My rule of thumb triumphs over yours... muhwahahaha.

What- a rule of thumb wrestling match

 

[Geofflightning]

Catapults are better than what credit they're given. I guess I'm just a bombard junkie, but I like to have lots of them by the time I can upgrade. They work fine against ancient units; what else would you need them for? Ancient use and upgrades; sounds pretty useful to me.

 

[Tomoyo]

I think towns have a bombard defense of 6, I think, compared to the cat's 4.

Although I guess I was comparing catapults to arty and thinking about a huge stack of 100 'pults.

 

[StampyDodo]

If the Computer Player wants to trade for one of your techs on his turn, you generaly want to pass and wait for your turn. If you give it to him on his turn, he may trade it to all the other civs. Just say No! When your turn comes youll have the freedom to trade it to whomever you want.

Don't let pride get in the way. Sometimes you just have to give the AI what he asks for to avoid war. Just remember that often times tribute is a small price to pay for avoiding a war with another CIV.

Practice Mircomangement. Its one of the few advantges the Human player has over the AI on the higher difficulitlies levels and you'll need everyone you can get.

If your City only has 1 turn left to grow, try and see if you can get more shields produced while still making sure the city still have 1 turn to grow. If only need 1 extra food for the city to increase in size their is no point in producing 4 extra.

If you only need one turn left to finish researching a science, try putting the science bar down. Sometimes you won't need all that gold to finish the research in one turn and can save youself a few gold by putting the bar down.

When you put a worker on your capital you can trade it to other civs. Trading workers can be usefull in many situations. Sometimes adding a few extra workers can turn a "Were getting close to a deal here" to an actualy deal. Sometimes when your desperate for something the AI has and your a little short this can be usefull.

If your positve a barbarian is going to make it to an unguarded city and you have a lot of gold consider buying something with it. The more money you have, the more barbs take. Better you trade it for a tech from another civ then let the barbs get some of it. Though keep in mind its better to lose 50 of your 300 gold to the barbarians then to lose all of your 300 gold for something you don't really want/or need.