Advice for a SMAC Newbie?

[ChrTh]

Sorry I haven't posted anything new, but I've been working all weekend, and what little time I had was spent getting totally destroyed in Civ 3 GOTM 5. Yikes!

I also have a question. I'm going to apply the 4.0 enhancements. Will that screw up my current saved game? Should I finish the game first before putting the patch on? What do you think?

 

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Go ahead and patch it. Shouldn't make a big difference.


Og

Let me know if your interested in specific Peace Keeper starting strats, as if I read correctly that is what your starting with.

 

[ChrTh]

I feel bad. I wasted last night tackling the Civ 2 GOTM. Oy, that was bad. I just gave up...and then reloaded Civ 2 on my PC since I was having issues.
And of course, since I felt bad mucking up the GOTM, I played another Civ 2 game. Doing ok so far, but the Celts are really pissing me off. But the Great Library/Leo's Workshop combo is MINT for a King game...so we'll see how I finish that one up tonight. And then I'll get back to SMAC. I promise!

All this GOTM'ing makes me wonder, though, have we tried a SMAC GOTM? I think it would be a good idea, but then again, I'm a sucker for GOTM (although I think after I finish my current game I may abandon Civ 2 for a long time). I guess the only real issue would be the Alien Crossover add-on (or lack thereof)...what do y'all think?

 

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Peacekeeper Tips:

Play the peacekeepers to their strengths and be cogniznat of the weaknesses

Faction strengths:

Extra Council votes
Extra Talent every 6(?) pop points
Pop limit of 9 before hab complexes reqd
Pop limit of 16 before hab domes reqd

Weaknesses:
-1 efficiency
No Police SE choice (not really a weakness at all)

What's more is that there is really no big downside to this faction so it allows Lal to morph into any play style you wish.

I'll cover the initial builder style game:

Points of Discussion:

1) Initial base layout and t-forming
2) SE choices
3) tech beeline strats & Special Projects
4) Pop booming


Base Layout/t-forming

1) Not much difference with regard to initial t-forming then with say UoP. The big thing is that you find and/or make a +2 nutrient square. UoP is blessed with Biogenetics as a starting tech allowing builds of recycle tanks. If and when you can get enuff energy credits a rush build of rec tanks is a great way to make a base self sufficient and a colony pod producer.

There are some significant base population numbers (at least thats the way I look at it). 3,and 5 being the ones I look most strongly at. If you achieve Planetary Transit SP then every base you establish will start with a population of 3. It is important that the base be able to support a population of 3. This only occurs if the base and worked squares have 6 nut contributions. Since in the early game the most productive squares (excluding specials) are 1stly a monolith and then a forest. You want to have as many workers as possible on these types of squaes. Monoliths are a hit or miss proposition but forests are easy to t-form. BUT.... if you work all three squares as a forest then you don't have enuff nuts to support 3 pop points (5 vs. 6 required) thus again the reason to have a +2 nutrient square or a recycle tank.

A small size 3 base then has a min contribution of 5-8 (5 being worst case where you had a rainy flat and 8 being best case where you had 3 forest worked squares and a recycle tank). Size three is a stable situation that gives a goodplatform to build from in terms of crawlered mins to bring yourself to a total min contributionof 15 or higher to force a fungal pop.

As far as size 5 goes, it marks the beginning of my second phaseof the game. Namely specialization. This is kinna an advanced topic that I can go into later but suffice it to say it is the first time you get to use specialists other than drone reducing specialists such as doctors, empaths etc.

2) SE choices - Again SE choices are one of the reasons why SMAC is so different from any other CIV game and is one of the most important tools to run a good game.

Look at the faction benefits and then the weaknesses. Lal benefits strongly from inherent drone quelling and large base population. He has some efficiency issues tho'.

In the beginning game stay as far away from planned as possible. The benefits of growth andindustry are nice but at -3 efficiency you'll kill almost all of your energy input thus stagnating your tech advance rate.

Planned is both Lal biggest boon and bane. In the beginning stay away when you pop boom, He pop booms like no other faction so planned becomes his savior. Until the pop boom tho' you want to stay clear.

So normal SE choices (for me at least) go something like this:
First SE change - Free Market
Second SE change - wealth
3rd SE change - Demo (occurs at point where I am no longer plopping down colony pods)

Upon you first SE choice Free Market you are attempting to increase energy and fuel your early game research. Because Lal has a talent as his first population point he can run Free market very easily without drone issue. At transcend levels only at a size 3 does he need concern himself with drone reducing means (psych allocation, rec commons or doctoring a citizen). But he has the ability to have size 2 bases churning out pods w/o drone issue. This is key as inthe early game your bases normally waffle between size 1 and 2 as you pump out colony pods.

Addition of wealth upon discovery of Industrial Automation puts your economy into overdrive.

If you had SMAX and the patch that allowed golden ages to yield +2 growth thus allowing a pop boom then you could run demo/fm/? and a GA to pop boom.

NOTE: One downside to FM. It makes you turtle. Unless you have found a bunch of independent units your ability to explore the world is very much hampered by the drones generated by having units outside your territory limits.

Tech Beeline Strat & SPs

Pretty much the same story here. Your looking to get to IA ASAP. Normally tho' the time frame is a good 10-20 turns longer than UoP. As before you want centauri ecology as one of the beginning techs so that you can get formers ASAP. After that beeline to IA for wealth, crawlers, and Planetray Transit SP's.

Again with regard to SP's there isn't a bad one in the bunch. FOr Lal there really isn't a strong favorite but if I had to pick, I'ld pick two nice ones. Firstly Weather Paradigm. Build the WP first and it allows you to get the advanced t-forming features. (Of these advanced features I build a LOT of condensor/farms yielding 4 nuts and later condensor/farm/soil enrichers yielding 6 nuts but that leads to specialization topics). Secondly Human Genome this allows base sizes of 4 w/o any drone quelling enhancements when running FM.

Pop Booming -

What can I say that I haven't before. Pop booming makes Lal absolutely fearsome. Once he completes his boom he has larger populations per base than anyone else and with double the council votes this makes him very fearsome indeed.

The recipe for the boom is the same:

Rec Commons
Tree Farm ( or a bunch of condensor farms)
Childrens Creche

As you start to run into drone issues the following are required:

Hologram Theatre (or Net Node if you've built Virtual World)
Research Hospital (only helps tho' if you've got some psych allocated or a doctor or two)

Your second boom willbe targeted to propel you from size 9 to size 16 and will likely require a hybrid forest facility for both drone quelling and extra nutrients from forests (which can be gotten around if you build a bunch of condensor/farms but again I digress).


Of course the boom is all kicked off by the switch from Demo/FM/wealth to Demo/Planned/Wealth. I normally allocate a little (say 20% psych at this point) in order to hopefully get a golden age at the larger bases thus a +2 econ and also to fend off droen issues during the growth spurt.


Anyhooo.....


Hope this helps


Og

 

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

ChrTh,


I'll get you hooked on SMAC yet (not the drug but the game). 'Course you'll probably curse me as the game is definitely an addiction.

SMAC GOTM -Absolutely. I'ld definitely be in for it.

Og

 

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

A Couple of Morgan pointers

Faction Strengths:
starts with 100 ec's
+1 econ
Extra trade income from treaties/pacts

Weaknesses
-1 support
pop 4 limit before hab complex
pop 11 limit before hab domes
can't run planned (Pre SMAX Golden Age patch no ability to pop boom w/o Cloning Vats SP)

Morgan is considered the ultimate builder faction of SMAC. The reason is simple he is the energy King. But in order to play him right, it definitely takes some getting used to. He is weak militarily in the early game due to his poor support. So if he's not building military he is best suited building facility and infrastructure.

Points of discussion:
1) Tech Tree and Beelines SE choices
2) base layout and t-forming
3) SP's

Tech Tree Beelines
The initial opening gambit that I heard of and found extremely helpful goes something like this. As soon as you found your first base change research priorities to Biogenetics. Set production of your first base immediately to Merchant Exchange SP. When you place your second base do the same.

As soon as you discover Biogenetics switch production to recycle tanks and use the 100+ credits you've got to rush buy recycel tanks at both initial base sites. Voila!, You've now got two great starting bases primed to pump out colony pods.

Techs beelines then become as follows

Biogentics - 1st tech
Industrial Econ - 2nd tech - Switch to FM ASAP
Info Networks
Centauri Ecology - Formers
Planetary Networks - Probe teams
Industrial Automation - Switch to Wealth,crawlers, and Planetary Transit System

then normally
Social Psych
Secrets of Human Brain
Democracy?
Gene Splice
Eco Engineering
Planetary Economy

After that beeline to tech that allow clean reactors (having a brain cramp right now and can't remember it). Once clean reactors are in play Morgan can build as many military units as he wants and now he is ready to play any style he wants.

Regarding SE's. FM and wealth is a great combination for Morgan. Deal with the drone issues as needed by converting a citizen to a doctor. Every new base you place the first thing you build will most likely be a recycle tank thats rush bought (use the 10 free mins and buy the rest). This allows pop growth to size 2 quickly and supports size 2 base size with one citizen on a forest and one as a doctor as needed.

Try to stay away from Demo if at all possible until you've decided to reign in your colony expansion. Reason being you want the free 10 mins and you'll kill yourself supportwise.

Base layout & T-forming

Nothing really special other than the you don't necessarily need the +2 nut squares as you'll be relying on the recycle tanks. What this means is the first worker can go straight to a forest for decent min/energy production.

Generally speaking b/c of the pop limits the amount of squares actually worked will be small. SO tight base spacing is preferable as this mean new base placement will be quick, resulting turn advantage. I alternate between 2 and 3 square spacings (vs. any other faction standardly as a 3 square spacing arrangement)

Most of the power of Morgan comes in the early game b/c of his high energy base square. Remember, the energy restriction doesn't hold for the base square. As a consequence of running FM/Wealth, the +4 econ makes base squares yield obcene amounts of energy thus powering research and funding the recylce tank rush buys. So you want to ICS with Morgan as a result.

SP's

All the earlyones are good. Generally speaking tho' I recommend going Human Genome first to aid the ICS process. Planetary Transit for Morgan is really the jewel tho' IMHO. B/c he can't po boom any additional pop points are very important. The only prob is if you get PTS then you have to remember to have a +2 nut square else you have a turn of starvation (i.e. no production even if you rush buy the recycle tank).

SP aquisistion is IHMO where Morgan really shines. After Ind Auto, Moragn should have all bases making crawlers for mins (jus like any other faction), but Morgan has synth metal already prototyped. Whats more he has scads of energy so go into the unit workshop create a synth armored crawler (add trance ability after SotHB) and build standard crawlers. Upgrade them to synth/(trance) and cash them in. Instantly the scads of energy Morgan has becomes industrial might towards Sp's.

With luck you can get all of the early ones if not at least the majority of them. Concentrate tho' on the ones I mentioned and after that I'ld recommend Weather Paradigm.


Og

 

[ChrTh]

Ack! Putting the 4.0 enhancements caused me to lose a Colony?!?

Well, that sucks. I guess I may as well start over, now that I have all of this strategy that I didn't have before.

I'm still overwhelmed by the sheer breadth of this game...but I think I'm getting the hang of it.

 

[ChrTh]

Ok, I played a new game today with the UoP.

I think I'm doing ok. Unfortunately, the Hive is right on my ass, so I wasted countless turns taking the war to them (to keep them honest). Right now there is peace, but the Gaians are rated higher than me.

I'm going to upload my game, I want people to tell me what they think so far; no future strategy, though, as I'm going to try some things first. Let me know what you think I did wrong.

 

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Your pretty far along in the game and have only 6 bases to show for it. Further they are still at or near the pop levels before a hab complex is needed.

Looks like you've missed a pop boom. Uusually pop booms happen at least twice per game. The first one brings all your bases up to hab complex limits then the second takes you up to hab complex/dome limits. You needed to go Demo/planned/X and have creches at your bases.

Secondly I note no crawlers or trawlers anywhere. You've gotten some terraformed areas around your bases that would be great to exploit using crawlers.

I can't tell what level of difficulty your playing. I also notice a lack of air units. Air units rule in SMAC preferably choppers with best weapon. Might have helped inyour war 'gainst the Hive.

On the upside it looks like you've done pretty well with a crappy draw having the Hive (Who are probably the strongest faction the computer plays by the by) so near by.

Without giving you advice for the future. I'ld say next time look to expand a bit more, Lay down more bases even if it means building sea bases. Here's a neat little expansion. Upon discovery of needlejets D:AP or better still Choppers MMI put a colony pod on either of those chassis and you can expand to islands where no one has gotten to yet. Expands your range significantly.

Seriously, it looks like once you hit the first beauracracy warning you gave up on expansion. Once you get you first six bases built up to (i.e. do your first pop boom to the point you'll need hab complexes) you'll probably look to start the next wave of colonization ('bout another 6 bases).

All in all tho' I'ld say your doing quite well. Keep at it and if the oppportunity comes to pop boom seize it (Cloning vats are soooo cool.)

Og

PS. Sorry 'bout the bum steer on the patching your existing game.

 

[ChrTh]

I won!

Ok, I'm going to upload the game later, but I thought I'd update you.

I was able to win by Ascent to Transcendence. I ended up having 9 bases, the 6 from above plus 3 I captured from the Hive (more on that in a sec).

Yeah, I didn't handle the first Pop Boom right. I did get a permanent Pop Boom, though, from a SP so that went nicely (only a couple minor riots before I got the SP that prevents them)

As for the Hive, well, they were morons. It may reflect on the level I was playing (Citizen), but considering their nature, they really shouldn't have declared a Vendetta against me...and then not attack.

Hunter/Seeker Algorithm is the BOMB. Love it. Of course, the Hive destroyed two of my buildings right before I built it...erg.

So how did I end up making the Hive pray for mercy? Three words: Locusts of Chiron. Oh yeah, plus that SP that gives you +50% PSI attack. Once I got that SP done, my LoC's didn't lose a single battle (you'll see in the saved game that all three hive cities are defended by 2 LoC's--and that's it).

Things that went wrong: well, my terraforming was close to nil at the end...my formers had gotten wiped out and I was too busy building SPs and Hybrid Forests to replace them...a hail storm and some outbreaks took care of some of my improvements. I never did make any crawlers or probe teams. Once I got my core 6 cities, I never took the time to expand, even though there was plenty of space to do so. So there is still a lot to learn, so I'm going to stick with Citizen for the next game (and pray I'm not parked next to the Hive this time).

As for the Ascent, I think it's kind've wrong that any Civ, er Faction can build it once Voice of Planet is done. If I'm Morgan, and I can't corner the Market for an economic victory, then I just sit on 20,000 and wait for the Ascent to become available and buy it. Next time I'll keep a close eye on my opponents and make sure they can't steal the Ascent from me.

One last question: Can I launch as many +1 Nut, etc., satellites into space that I want? Or is there a limit?

 

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

ChrTh,

Congrats!!!!

The first win is always a sweet one.

As to your question about the number of sattelites. Yes you can produce as many as you want. They only contribute as follows tho:

For each base w/o an aerospace facility each sat yields 1 Factor of Production per every 2 sats (i.e. contribution halved)

For each base with an aerospace facility each sat yields 1 FOP/sat

The number of sats that can contribute to a given base is equal to the base size. So.... If you have a size 15 base only 15 skyfarms, 15 energy sats, and 15 nessus mining sata can contribute to this base even if you have say 50 of each.

(Note: Space Elevator I believe allows sats to contribute fully even w/o aerospace facilities (no halving)

OTOH a satellite yields FOP's to ALL bases. Very, very powerful these facilities are. (Written in his best Yoda voice )

I didn't give a lot if any detail of the mid game to late game but it looks like you puzzled it out pretty well on your own.

Congrats again,

Og


P.S. By the by, Yes Hunter Seeker rules, as does Cloning vats, later on so does Telepathic Matrix and some other goodies as well.

P.S.S. Let me know if you want some mid game pointers/strats.