Advice for warmongering

[Alpharius]

Spoiler :

Kinda newbie Immortal player here.
Playing as Mongolia, Immortal/Standard map(communitu)/Standard speed. Any advice would be appreciated.

As a tall/peaceful player I'm a bit stumped on how to proceed as I usually am when playing warmonger/expansionist civs. I spawned pretty close to Japan, and unsurprisingly they forward settled me (though I did it first tbh). I'm on pretty good terms diplomatically with most civs except for Zulu to the far east and Siam a little bit to the west. I have a DP with Songhai and Portugal, then there's Austria who managed to (peacefully) vassalize both Russia and England(???)

What would be the best route to take from here? I could capture Tokyo and Kyoto to vassalize Japan, but I'm pretty sure most of my neighbors would hate my guts by then. I could take it slow and peace out to let the warmonger penalty dissipate a bit, but by that point Japan's UU(Samurai) would be online and I'm not really sure I could take them on with ease (not to mention they might get a DP with Austria) which brings me to my main question.

As Japan is pretty much done for, my next contender would be Austria. Mongolia's UA benefits from CS to take tribute from, but it seems Austria is looking to run-away any moment now so I could conquer the surrounding CS to cripple her a bit, but that would hurt me too. Is it more beneficial in the long run to let those CS be for my tribute, or do I go full-on command & conquer on these city-states?
Looking from another angle, I could declare war on Austria, but I'm a bit apprehensive. I don't think I could take on four armies at once, though Portugal(DP) might not send any troops at all.

On an unrelated note; Mongolia's UA is really good(though not OP) but the UU(GG) lacks a bit of 'oomph' for a UU.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

Hello!

My warmongering experience on Deity has been that it's beneficial to not start with settling a lot of cities, but instead focusing on a few good core cities and then pumping out a lot of units to go out killing and conquering, while trying to get Terracota Army and/or Great Wall for extra supply and other bonuses. You can always annex those conquered cities that seem to be more productive. From your picture it would seem you've settled quite a lot of cities that have been locked for growth and/or very recently settled, for example Tiflis, and they in my opinion cause more harm than good in the short and long term because of the increased costs of techs and social policies. Having said that, I'd recommend you conquer as many Japanese cities as possible, then go for Austria. As Mongolia, you want to do a lot of warmongering, so it doesn't matter what your neighbours will think, because sooner or later they'll be your next target. I wouldn't conquer Austria's CS allies if possible, I'd rather have them alive so I could bully them until the end of the game. England is far away, so I wouldn't worry about her troops, while you could decide, if you get Japan as your vassal, to first focus on Russia before going for Austria's lands. Oh, and I would recommend you try settling away from the coast whenever possible so you don't have to worry about having to build a navy to defend your coastal cities, unless there's a really good defensive position that makes a city hard to attack from the sea. In your case, I would not have settled Hsia and Turfan on the coast, because then I wouldn't have to worry about my western front.

As for the UU, I find it compensated for by the sheer OP-ness of the UA, but if you want to try something different, here is a change by @pineappledan that tweaks Mongolia a bit, making its UU a bit special - https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/pineappledan-tweaks-for-vp.668932/ .

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask

 

[Alpharius]

Hello!

My warmongering experience on Deity has been that it's beneficial to not start with settling a lot of cities, but instead focusing on a few good core cities and then pumping out a lot of units to go out killing and conquering, while trying to get Terracota Army and/or Great Wall for extra supply and other bonuses. You can always annex those conquered cities that seem to be more productive. From your picture it would seem you've settled quite a lot of cities that have been locked for growth and/or very recently settled, for example Tiflis, and they in my opinion cause more harm than good in the short and long term because of the increased costs of techs and social policies. Having said that, I'd recommend you conquer as many Japanese cities as possible, then go for Austria. As Mongolia, you want to do a lot of warmongering, so it doesn't matter what your neighbours will think, because sooner or later they'll be your next target. I wouldn't conquer Austria's CS allies if possible, I'd rather have them alive so I could bully them until the end of the game. England is far away, so I wouldn't worry about her troops, while you could decide, if you get Japan as your vassal, to first focus on Russia before going for Austria's lands. Oh, and I would recommend you try settling away from the coast whenever possible so you don't have to worry about having to build a navy to defend your coastal cities, unless there's a really good defensive position that makes a city hard to attack from the sea. In your case, I would not have settled Hsia and Turfan on the coast, because then I wouldn't have to worry about my western front.

As for the UU, I find it compensated for by the sheer OP-ness of the UA, but if you want to try something different, here is a change by @pineappledan that tweaks Mongolia a bit, making its UU a bit special - https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/pineappledan-tweaks-for-vp.668932/ .

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask

First off, thanks for the feedback ^^

I actually thought having more cities would benefit wide warmonger so I settled like crazy during early game, securing my lux monopoly and the horses which I really needed. How many setttled cities do you think is optimal for Authority? My two cities on the east were used to secure a different lux, though I agree I could live without it. As for coastal cities, yeah I actually wasn't planning to build a navy, but I thought it'd be somewhat defensible with only one tile exposed to the ocean, which now sounds unlikely to me as well as I'm typing this xD

Settling Tiflis though, was a lapse in judgment on my part as I wanted a more defensive position and I thought I'd be fighting a prolonged war with Japan, but unexpectedly did really well, thanks in part that their UU isn't utilized yet.

All things considered though I'm off to a decent start, I managed to build some good wonders (Oracle, Great Wall, Terracotta, Angkor Wat) as for other questions, I guess, what additional strategies I could use for border blob? I got God of the Expanse as my Pantheon, Hero Worship/Cathedral when I founded. I'm about 4 turns away from my next Prophet so I'm wondering which enhancers could synergize with my current play.

 

[LifeOfBrian]

You're welcome

Having more cities is good for warmongers, but in my experience you're better off if the vast majority of your cities come from conquests, not early-game settling, and on Deity it seems to me that the best course of action is to puppet the vast majority of conquered cities, with capitals/holy cities/very good production&wonder cities being annexed.

In any case, I recommend you try it out yourself to see what better suits you, play a few games with the same civ where you settle a lot of cities and a few games where you settle only a few cities before you shift your focus to warmongering. Perhaps you can even re-do this game to see the difference. In my experience on standard maps, 4-5 cities is the optimal number for warmongers, sometimes even fewer. I've won warmongering games with 2 settled cities, rushing Terracotta and Great wall for extra supply, then slowly grinding down the AIs. As for coastal cities, sooner or later you'll have a big AI navy come and even with only one ocean tile exposed, the city will get worn down and taken. With the lakes now enabling you to build coastal buildings, I would have settled Hsia not on the coast, but still next to the lake, that way I could still work the ocean tiles improved by lighthouses and harbours.

Those are great wonders and religious traits, bravo! I would enhance with Orders and Zealotry, if they're still available, because with Orders and Hero Worship you'll be swimming in faith, so you'll be able to spend a lot of it through Zealotry to further fuel your warmongering, allowing you to focus production on other stuff.