After Vox Populi Goes Gold

[ashendashin]

What happens then? Firaxis has given no indication that a community such as this can move forward with the Civ series. Maybe we'll have larger scale mod-mods for a time but we'll forever be limited to 32-bit.
Is VP as far as any 4X will go in terms of both depth and AI in the current game industry?

 

[Moi Magnus]

Short term: there is all the modmod to stabilize and update. Moreover, VP could really use some scenario.

Mid term: I guess that another team of dev will package ideas from the modmod and make a "VP expansion pack" trying to balance all of them. I think that the main objective of the VP expansion pack should be MP balance. Old games have a lot a replayability when MP works.

Long term: If civ 6 fails to convert the civ 5 community, I'm sure they will try to catch it back with civ 7. If they don't, the best the community can do is to split themselve from Firaxis and progressively recode the whole game (in 64bit). Its difficult to says how copy-right of old software like civ 5 will evolve.

 

[Owlbebach]

Honestly speaking i think that the only future it has is the multilayer because once updates stop coming - after ±1 year all game will be studied so good that people will stop trying new stuff. And once upon a time it will have to stop, i recently realized that Gazebo is working on that for (!) 8 years

One thing that i recently understood is that balance updates, even those that might break the balance for sometime, are necessary to keep the game interesting. And if at the end someone will make it possible to play multiplayer like NQ mod - it will be an incredibly replayable game

 

[tu_79]

I think this game would be a great base for any deep learning machine. One that adapts to each player, moving up difficulty level every time the player wins three games in a row, moving down every time the player loses two games in a row. The difficulty level won't be handicap based, but instead it will switch to more advanced AI, like those in fight games (like Tekken). So you know you are a good player when you can sometimes beat AI level 37.

 

[theMisterRud]

Is VP as far as any 4X will go in terms of both depth and AI in the current game industry?

For the moment, yes.

We could wait another 8-9 years for a similar effort to resurface on a community level. There is sooo much work under VP that it would be impossible to replicate it on a production environment.

AI and depth do not sell, all the major 4X companies give plenty of modding possibilities in order to outsource shortcomings to the respective communities. Firaxis will probably release a proper SDK for Civ6 when that game will reach the trailing part of its shelf life. Than maybe a successor will show up and attempt to create a Civ6 - VP

 

[ashendashin]

AI and depth do not sell, all the major 4X companies give plenty of modding possibilities in order to outsource shortcomings to the respective communities. Firaxis will probably release a proper SDK for Civ6 when that game will reach the trailing part of its shelf life. Than maybe a successor will show up and attempt to create a Civ6 - VP

Moddability is part of what I meant. Not many companies release source code. I haven't seen another 4X with real forays into the AI by the community, but I'm not sure if that's due to all of them sharing modding limitations or a lack of capability/will in their respective communities.
I don't see Firaxis releasing anything substantial this time around. They've been silent towards any modding beyond fluff additions like civs, wonders, etc..

 

[Stalker0]

Didn't they wait until the second expansion in Civ 5 before releasing the source code? I wouldn't expect anything different this time around.

 

[theMisterRud]

Didn't they wait until the second expansion in Civ 5 before releasing the source code? I wouldn't expect anything different this time around.

I remember it this way

By the way guys

"Exposing interfaces to the modding community" is not "releasing source code". They are entirely different things

(just to clarify)

 

[ashendashin]

I remember it this way

By the way guys

"Exposing interfaces to the modding community" is not "releasing source code". They are entirely different things

(just to clarify)

The DLL contains a good chunk of the source code, no? I know it doesn't have netcode or graphics and such, but it does allow you to directly work on the AI by means of compiling it yourself. I'm no programmer so educate me otherwise.

I wasn't around the community for Civ5's advertising. Did they release the DLL out of the blue to everyone's great surprise?

 

[JUNK de LUXE]

uhm? Seems I'm out of the loop? what exactly is happening with Civ5, VP and Firaxis?

 

[lordrune]

uhm? Seems I'm out of the loop? what exactly is happening with Civ5, VP and Firaxis?

Just further fixes, possible refinement, and modmod development. Status quo.

It's more of a discussion as to whether 4X modding efforts as involved as VP could plausibly happen with more advanced engines, noting that the Civ 5 engine is dated and has limitations, as much as the community has done amazing things with it to date.

 

[JUNK de LUXE]

Well... without knowing anything about the modability of Civ 5 and others, I do have some insights in the modding community. And when the community has shown time after time is that enough people play a game, and love it, the possibilities are endless. Comming from a long period of playing Skyrim and seeing what the modders have been able to do with the game is amazing. Custom DLLs, hooks into the engine, extending and adding new code making new stuff possible that was deemed impossible, new worlds bigger then the game itself etc, new animations not thought possible with the gaming client etc.

So VP devs might make a final version, polish it and release it and then that's it. But new people will play Civ5 and they will start something we never thought of. Or they wont.. and the main reason being that the fanbase is too small and the time required to blow our minds is too steep, the knowledge needed too high etc.
And if the fanbase is too small, then the game is slowly dying anyways.