AI and Religions

[Noble Zarkon]

Playing a recent game I managed to found all 3 early Religions despite having two Spiritual leaders in the game.

I wonder if they have been tinkered with too much - it's fine that most Civs pursue worker techs first but I'd like to see the Spiritual ones still go hard after the early religions.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Another issue I have seen is Civs running Theocracy but having no State Religion!!

Overall the changes to Religion are not good for the types of games I enjoy (That's just me though so keep up the good work).

 

[karadoc]

Another issue I have seen is Civs running Theocracy but having no State Religion!!

I don't think the AI would ever choose to do this under normal conditions. I can only think of two times this might happen: either the AI is just about to adopt a state religion within the next few turns; or their state religion was eliminated from their civilization (maybe the cities were captured or something).

I can't see anything in the civic evaluation function which would give any kind of value to Theocracy without a state religion (or intention to have a state religion). If you have an example of the AI doing this which doesn't match the possible cases I described, then it might be a bug, and I'd like to see a save game to reproduce it.

--
As for the founding of early religions, it's important to keep in mind that the AI's tech choices are quite situational, and have a good chunk of randomness too. So I'm not surprised that it's sometimes possible to beat the AI to all of the early religions. And even if the tech choices weren't situational, I can imagine cases whether they AI is trying to get a religion, but failing because it's just a couple of turns behind you in research. It might be going after every religion that you go for, but just barely missing out every time. - So for those reasons, one shouldn't put much weight in one-off events in isolated games.

The big questions are these: does this happen often? And when you do beat the AI to all the early religions, is it worth it? If going after all the religions end up making you worse off by putting you behind in other techs, then it probably isn't something the AI should be too concerned about. I've often heard humans giving the following advise to each other in other parts of these forums: don't bother going for the early religions. It's better to just let the AI get them and then capture the holy city by force if you really want it. I think it's probably good if that kind of strategy isn't always the best option.

In any case, I'm interested to hear of other examples and opinions on this. Isolated cases doesn't really mean much to me, but when a bunch of isolated cases start gathering together, they cease being isolated.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

All fair points, I'll do a few more tests. personally I would rather the religious leaders aggressively pursued religions even if the all the others are much more situational. I like "flavours" - some coca are builders, others chase wonders whilst some will go down the religious route.

 

[karadoc]

Certainly leaders do pursue religions with far more fever than others, and those leaders do tend to be the ones who actually get the religions - it just isn't guaranteed.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Certainly leaders do pursue religions with far more fever than others, and those leaders do tend to be the ones who actually get the religions - it just isn't guaranteed.

OK thanks - sorry I was a bit too negative. I'll do some more rigorous testing and supply saves if I find anything.

Thanks for your great mod and the way you interact with us.

 

[plastiqe]

Thanks for your great mod and the way you interact with us.

Aw man... I was gonna found the religion of K-modism but you beat me by 1 post. : P

 

[Noble Zarkon]

lol nice one

 

[noto2]

The big questions are these: does this happen often? And when you do beat the AI to all the early religions, is it worth it?

This occurred to me as well. Nabbing one of the early religions is not automatically beneficial to one's game. You have to put in a lot of effort (spamming missionaries) to get anything out of it. I'm glad the AI isn't always so gung-ho on early religions because in high level BTS it was basically impossible to get the early religions and so it made the early game more "cookie-cutter", in that you always had to follow the same open (food, then BW, for example). At least in Kmod it is possible, even on high level, to get an early religion. Not that it will do anything for you, but at least it's possible. Now, using it to your advantage is a whole other story.

 

[Todd Hawks]

Within the last two weeks, I started a good dozen or so games on prince and noble on huge maps with about 8-10 AIs. And I basically had every outcome possible wrt religions: AI getting the first at turn 13 (epic speed), AI getting the first at turn 50, me getting one or two and the AI getting the other etc... so I
a) would definitely not say that the behavior is always (or even often) as described by NobleZarkon.
b) like it the way it is. You can never be sure you get a religion you go for. But you have a chance to get it (unlike pre-K-mod where there always were one or more religious civs that *always* got the first religion due to their bonuses on prince and above).

 

[shulgi]

I second the above, the diversity of AI choices in regard to early religion is very good. It does seem easier to win CoL or Philosophy but that might be me dropping a difficulty level to monarch.

 

[noto2]

good point, Todd. The early game commercial options (like the first 15 turns) are quite limited, so when the AI gets even a 5% research bonus, it's nearly impossible to get an early religion if the AI is always going for it