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AI and Road Spammin

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by rocklikeafool, Jun 30, 2008.

  1. rocklikeafool

    rocklikeafool Warmaster

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    Finally, someone who knows wat I mean! Thank you, Ecofarm. :) I like your suggestion too. Very practical.
     
  2. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    If you have something better to do, obviously you don't want to be building roads in every time. But seriously though, having roads in every tile of your empire is definitely useful. The raider trait is not reason enough not to have roads, because while your enemies can use it, so can you.
     
  3. Baron Von Noob

    Baron Von Noob Chieftain

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    I agree it makes sense from a gaming point of vue to road-spam, but lore-wise, it's always something that annoys me when a whole continent is "roaded up" in FFH.
    I mean, ok for modern day countries having roads all over the place, but I find it more flavorful when there are large forest or desert zones without improvements, even inside cultural borders, as long as they're outside of city grids. I really doubt most leaders in Erebus have time to plan "road development" with the Infernals at their door !
     
  4. MacGyverInSpace

    MacGyverInSpace Monarch

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    What about some python based graphical improvement that places 'major roads' on the shortest distance between two cities for each near city. The rest of the 'minor roads' would be retextured to stand out less.
    It would slow the game down to run the calculation every time a new city is founded or a road built. End of turn however adds it to every turn of play, which is no fun either. So, just have onImprovmentbuilt (if road) and onCityfound set a boolean (update major routes) to 1 and then at end turn if that is 1 run the calculations.

    I haven't worked out the algorithm myself but it should be possible and not too performance costly. If someone wants to work it out (I don't know C4 python well yet) it would make a great addition to late game civ4 as well (highways, shortlines vs corridor lines...)
    If figure the system would also work if not strictly graphical, and you say that the defending military, with their superior cartography, can use the back routes better then the enemy commandos.
     
  5. Marksman77

    Marksman77 Aethernaut

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    When playing Elves, I move throug forest just like on a road, so I build roads only to connect cities and resources. But I make the roads double. It's pretty uncommon that the AI will pillage both roads from my resource at once.
    If Malakim, I don't build roads on deserts, except for connecting resources and cities.
    Same with dwarves and hills.

    This way you've got better movement than your Raiders enemy.

    And if I have Raiders neighbour I leave my border stripped from roads. Maybe one or two roads to the border, but guarded. Especially if he's Hippus.
     
  6. Niveras

    Niveras Prince

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    Wait, what? If he has trouble with an AI destroying an important road and breaking your trade network, isn't that argument for spamming roads? And as Magister said, what else are workers going to do? And finally, having those extra roads could mean the difference between reinforcements in your territory attacking an enemy army, because they reached the army with 1/3 of a move left, and having to wait a turn, because they had to cross a non-road tile and use of their last move.

    I can understand the 'unsightly' argument. In previous Civ games I went overboard spamming upgraded roads (railroads, or magtubes in some games) because they were straight and clean. There's no alternative in FFH, but ignoring the huge tactical advantage of a surplus of roads is just going to hurt you.
     
  7. cabbagemeister

    cabbagemeister Please wait...

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    Keep in mind that attaching penalties (maintenance or health) to roads to discourage spamming, as some suggest, would disproportionately penalize your important central cities which connect to many other cities. This is both unrealistic (cities don't get worse from having many trade connections) and obnoxious from a MM perspective--figuring out exactly how to arrange my roads so as to give my capital the smallest health hit is not what I want to spend my brainpower on in Civ.
     
  8. Aroldo

    Aroldo Chieftain

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    Roads should be everywhere.
     
  9. rocklikeafool

    rocklikeafool Warmaster

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    Fine. I've heard a lot of opinions. So, let's let this thread die. Obviously, y'll spam roads. I don't. Peace.
     
  10. PacoDeth

    PacoDeth Chieftain

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    Though, isn't your biggest complaint is that the AI spams roads? I say if the computer wants to go around spamming roads (like 99% of the real life players do), then let them do it. It seems your problem as in asthetic thing, and bear in mind these tiles are meant to represent HUGE/VAST distances. It's not like 100,000 people are crammed into a 1tile city thats the size of a Wal-Mart or anything. Having a road through a tile from a real life perspective would be like having ONE SINGLE road through a decent sized modern day city or town.

    You know, those small towns that only have one stoplight in them on main street? Consider the road in those outlying tiles to be that old country road running through town.

    Your problem is asthetic and apperance based, but not game based or real life based. Every tile in your empire should have a road through it as people have said, so you can get anywhere in your OWN borders with the least amount of movement. If some army hoards up next to one of your resources on a hill/forest tile with 50% defense, you want to be able to get to them as quickly as possible. If you want to play a game with me, I will gladly pillage your lands and easily bring in an invading force because you are too nitpicky to build roads all around your cities. It will just make it that much easier to get around your lands without fear of being attacked or getting hit by your reinforcements!
     
  11. rocklikeafool

    rocklikeafool Warmaster

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    My biggest complaint WAS AI road spammin. NOW it's people who make very long posts when I asked that everyone let the thread die.
     
  12. slowcar

    slowcar King

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    threads die when people decide not to post anymore, not when the OP likes to.
    go roads! ;)
     
  13. Darksaber1

    Darksaber1 Secret Emperor

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    Darkstick1: Well, my thoughts on roads are-
    Rock Like a Fool: Be quit!
    Darkstick1: -that road spamming-
    Rock Like A Fool: BE QUIT!
    Darkstick1: -is a viable strategie-
    Rock Like a Fool: SHUT UP!:mad:
    Darkstick1: -as any civ but that "Urk"!
    Rock Like a Fool: grabs Darkstick1 by the neck and drags him away and beats him, then storms away
    Darkstick1: -but that the Elves and Vehem's lizardmen have the best advantage with roads hhhhhrrrrr...Darkstick1 expired at this point
    ------------------------The End---------------
    Darkstick1: Hrahp(breaths Suddenly)
    ------------------------Or is It?--------------
     
  14. smusebaer

    smusebaer Warlord

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    I believe that this is an immortal threat...it doesn´t die, it just spawns at the capital.
    So let us sing like the Vikings ind Monty Python...
    roadsroadsroadsroadsroads. Lovely roads! Wonderful roads! roads roa-a-a-a-a-ds roads roa-a-a-a-a-ds roads. Lovely roads! Lovely roads! Lovely roads! Lovely roads! Lovely roads! roads roads roads roads!
     
  15. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    They stop either then, or when a moderator decides to close it. Rocklikeafool could PM Woodelf and try to convince him to close it if he likes.

    Or, he maybe can try to make this thread become so rude or obscene that that they are forced to take action to close it.

    (The first option is probably better, as he could probably get banned from civfanatics if he goes too far.)
     
  16. SwordofStriker

    SwordofStriker Prince

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    I think RLAF's complaint about AI road spam raises a good question though.

    Could the AI in fact be programmed to build roads minimally and more intelligently (road spamming pro's aside)? For example, could the AI be programmed to make roads only to connect cities and resources with say a single road leading to other civs for trade routes?

    If so, I'd be interested in that, but if not then I suppose the whole point/complaint is moot anyways.
     
  17. Arcite36575

    Arcite36575 Warlord

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    To quote McArthur, "Old threads never die, they just fade away."

    Don't feel too bad TS. Most of us have started a thread at one time that we weren't too proud of later. I have to say though, "road spamming" is one of the strangest complaints I've ever heard of since I started playing back in v. 21:)

    I would recommend that you probably shouldn't get a job in the state government transportation department or in supply chain management. I'd hate it if I woke up one morning and realized I couldn't get anywhere because every road except the highways (which connect the major cities) had been bulldozed. :D

    In all seriousness though, if anything, I would give roads a +1 gold bonus per square. Roads and transportation are the key to good commerce thoughout the world and everyone benefits by having as many routes to move products as possible.
     
  18. westamastaflash

    westamastaflash Lord Commander

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    I was saddened when roads no longer give +1 commerce. Remember the good ol' Civ 2 Days? Railroads and Superhighways FTW!
     
  19. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I'd say that you shouldn't add +1 golf from routes, you should add +1 commerce to some(/most?) improvements with routes. A road to nowhere doesn't give you gold, but a roads to surrounding villages do promote trade.
     
  20. Arcite36575

    Arcite36575 Warlord

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    Yes, that's better. I'd add +1 commerce per square which has roads and any improvements.
     

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