AI breaks MA?

ThisIsHughYoung

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I was playing a continents game recently where I managed to bribe three other nations into a MA against the Aztecs. However, the weaker Incas and Turks prematurely broke this alliance leaving the powerful Mayans and me to fight. Since then the foreign advisor has cautioned me against trading with these "known liars and cheats".

at this point the Aztecs were on a different continent, separated from all their foes. My two questions are: why did they break a 20-turn agreement, and under which terms does an AI feel it necessary to negotiate peace terms? Did the many ocean tiles in between them cause it to be considered a stalemate?
 
Same here. My current game, also continents, saw me bribe three others to attack Xerxes. Osman broke off the alliance about a dozen turns into it, but Hiawatha and Gandhi wanted to continue the alliance after the initial 20 turns had expired (I declined, and wiped out the Persians next turn).

The ocean tiles probably had nothing to do with it, since Hiawatha and Osman were both on the distant continent. Beats me why Osman quit and Hiawatha didn't. Anyway if YOU cut out of an alliance early you'll get a trade rep hit, according to microbe. Check out his Trading Reputation thread here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=113376&highlight=trade+reputation

As for why the Incas and Turks sued for peace early in your game, and the Turks opted out in mine, I dunno. Maybe some grizzled veteran player out there could fill us in.
 
There is no rhyme or reason. They mostly act capriciously. It is pretty normal for them to break deals, but the human will suffer a rep hit for the same action.

If the other guy makes them a deal, they often break the deal with you. If they are getting hammered, they often make peace and break the deal. Never count on them in any MPP or RoP.
 
If the other guy makes them a deal, they often break the deal with you. If they are getting hammered, they often make peace and break the deal. Never count on them in any MPP or RoP.

By RoP do you mean RoP rape?

brb, time to deal with a three civ MA against me...
 
Yeah, RoP means Right of Passage, and RoP rape refers to a double-cross (attacking the "partner" while RoP is in effect). According to microbe you won't suffer a TRADE rep hit, but nobody will do a Rop agreement with you after you do a RoP rape.

Btw good luck on holding off the dogpile. At least the experience should enhance your combat abilities ;).
 
Yeah, I lost many units trying to take a luxury outpost and eventually stalled to a stalemate... I hate ancient era wars. Do people generally use lots of bombarding units when attacking? I lost four swordsmen and two archers against two spearmen on a jungle city...
 
I'd played Civ3 for years without seriously considering bombard units. After all, the AI hardly used them, so why bother? It was only after reading some threads and going over legendary games that their utility became apparent. (Sulla's win as Iroquois on vanilla Deity, holding off waves of Rooskies by wounding them with massed batteries of artillery, was a real eye-opener.)

Nowadays up to half of my SoD's (Stacks of Doom) consist of bombards, and border towns get their share. That's why Mathematics is such a critical tech; you need it to make Catapults, without which precious Legionaries or Swordsmen are at greater exposure to the tender mercies of the RNG (Random Number Generator). It makes a huge difference between attacking a healthy Spearman and one red-lined. Even at yellow they usually lose. Once you take or raze the town cats can bombard counterattacking units that are invariably unfortified, picking off the most vulnerable with your swords or archers (just be careful not to attack solitary units unless you have horses which can return to the stack afterwards). The other wounded usually retreat so you can beat them off piecemeal, with kill ratios approaching ten to one.

That said, you have to upgrade them or at higher levels you'll find yourself almost uselessly bouncing rocks off Musketmen fortified in cities. Or cannonballs off Infantry, unless they're in the open. There've been cases where about a dozen shots by cats caused only one or two hits on muskets, necessitating suicidal attacks by swords that cost nearly the whole force. (And if you contemplate doing the same against rifles, fuhgetaboutit. Ain't gonna happen, unless maybe there's a single defender.)

Further on the down side bombards aren't lethal or necessarily reliable (I've had cats get hardly any hits against even spears in cities, especially enemy capitals), they drastically slow down a stack with mounted/armored units, they can't go into mountains or wetlands except along roads, they cost as much as regular combat units for upkeep, and the upgrade from cannons to artillery is almost prohibitively expensive (120 gold) unless you're rolling in dough. Some experienced players don't use them for these and other reasons; check out the threads for details.

Anyway that's my opinion. Cheers and good luck.
 
Yeah, if the price is right the AI will break a deal with you. So I try to make MAs with gpt or resource trades--if trade routes are secure--so I pay less when they quit fighting early.

If the common enemy has ample money, extra techs and/or is more powerful than your ally it is a good bet your ally will stop being your ally sooner rather than later.

If your common enemy has nothing to buy his way out of war, your ally will happily keep beating him down, taking his cities and continuing to be your "ally".

You can occasionally take advantage of this situation...buy tech and MA for lots of gpt, and when the ally breaks the alliance you get to keep the tech. Similar to "this AI is about to 'surprise' attack me, time to buy a tech for gpt."
 
By RoP do you mean RoP rape?

brb, time to deal with a three civ MA against me...

Not so much an RoP rape. I never give them that opportunity. I will always put defenders to any town, if they have units in the area. I will shadow any forces in my land.

So they may break an MA or MPP, but any attempt to RoP rape will be stopped. Mainly I just do not count on them to keep any deal. If they keep them, it is because they do not have a better offer or any other offer.

Of course I prefer to play AW, so we have no deals of any kind. Just wars.
 
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