AI getting away with warmongering, this NEEDS to be fixed.

[reddishrecue]

World ideology does help in warmongering when it comes to providing unhappiness to enemy civilizations that makes their troops less effective and weaker. City revolts also caused by big culture and tourism does do some damage to the warmongers. Warmongering civilizations caught unprepared for the ideological era can sometimes have their cities revolting to other civilizations that have a more content ideology. If someone is unprepared ideologically and has a revolutionary wave with mass barbarians spawn, the honor starter can give that extra culture from eliminating the barbarian spawns from mass unhappiness.
It seems that the AI is able to get away from warmongering penalties because the AI doesn't occupy cities that give an extreme warmonger penalty or a major warmonger penalty and instead captures cities that cause a minor warmonger penalty.

 

[apocalypse105]

World ideology does help in warmongering when it comes to providing unhappiness to enemy civilizations that makes their troops less effective and weaker. City revolts also caused by big culture and tourism does do some damage to the warmongers. Warmongering civilizations caught unprepared for the ideological era can sometimes have their cities revolting to other civilizations that have a more content ideology. If someone is unprepared ideologically and has a revolutionary wave with mass barbarians spawn, the honor starter can give that extra culture from eliminating the barbarian spawns from mass unhappiness.
It seems that the AI is able to get away from warmongering penalties because the AI doesn't occupy cities that give an extreme warmonger penalty or a major warmonger penalty and instead captures cities that cause a minor warmonger penalty.

But how do you get the minor warmonger penalty?

The issue I had with this warmogner penalty is that it isn't explained verry well how it works.

 

[njmfff]

Sometimes the AI hates you enough - prior wars, amount of damage done, or something else - that they would rather die than make peace. It doesn't happen a lot, though.

Thanks. So AI can be suicidal sometimes. I noticed I didn't get huge diplo hit, since several AIs already denounced Bismark, and I was friendly with few civs.

This game I mentioned took place in vanilla. Good to see that Oda's warmongering, forward-settling ways haven't changed.

But njmff's post raises another question that I'd like to see answered by the veterans here (although it's probably material enough for a different thread all on its own). How do you deal with the forward settlers? You know, those civs that have the temerity to plant cities near yours, and THEN declare war on YOU? And even the ones that don't declare war on you - those are actually worse since you have to do it yourself and get the penalty.

Either way, the problem is the same. The only way to get rid of those forward-settled cities is to take them from him, which will hit you with the warmongering penalty, despite the fact that he settled right beside you in the first place, which is something the other AIs should be able to understand, since they don't like it either when you (the human) do it to them. How does one deal with this?

Yeah, Oda can still be weird AI. Settles near you, complains that you settle near him (much like Elizabeth) then fallows by attack. He can be good ally sometimes tho, and won't be cranky, but it depends on how are your relationships with other civs. Alto, I always watch out for him since he backstabbed me several times in few games.

now about settlers. It's a luck factor like other member said, but there seems to be few factors that make the difference:

1. Relationship with AI. You can ask them not to settle and they will agree to it, if you're friendly enough. It seems to be in effect only after AI already settles near you tho. (much like religion and convert)

2. You have a bigger military so you bully them by demanding they don't settle near them. Sometimes it will work, sometimes it won't. Seems to be less effective with warmongering civs. Siam can also refuse. Orange will agree but still settle near you. Leave him to make Polders then capture his cities\steal territory with GWG.

3. Block AI's settlers - don't give open boarders, then place units on the titles you don't own so AI can't pass your land. If you figure out where AI wants to settle, you can use 2-3 units to block him and go in circle, AI can eventually give up (alto, it can still settle around the same era, so it's luck). in one game I figured out that Elizabeth wants to settle on hill near my city, so I kept Swordsman on that hill. She was persistent tho, and kept that settler just sitting there for over 100 turns. Oda also wanted that place (!?) but eventually settled near my city, soaking up some titles. That city was first to get captured when we started a war tho.

4. Declare war and capture his settlers. This can hurt Deity AI really bad too. They immediately lose half of their advantage.

 

[CivAddict2013]

Did ideologies come in to play? When you get in to industrialization and the modern era, world diplomacy now encounters a huge shift in priorities. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing this doesn't have to do as much with you doing better than them, and more to do with you choosing a different ideology than they did, which is somewhat difficult to recover diplomatically from (although not always impossible). Fortunately, the nations that choose the same ideology you chose will start to support you. Late game, when ideologies come in to play, world diplomacy completely changes, but still follows a system.

Perhaps it was ideologies. It doesn't change the fact that I'm pretty much friends with these guys the whole game and they just suddenly turn on me. I even elected Brazil as host. Couple turns later? He denounces me. The only city I've taken at this point is one of Assyria's city and everybody is at war with Assyria. Assyria was basically the main warmonger this game.

But Siam declared war on me in the early game and then declared war on me AGAIN later. It wasn't until the late game that he started to get denounced.

And what's weird is Assyria eventually became my only friend. I took one of his cities and he wants to be my friend. I didn't take any of Siam, Brazil or Ethiopia's cities but they all hate me.

Eventually I said screw diplomacy. I buddied up with Assyria and took most of Siam's cities. After that I nuked Brazil, took all his wonders and got a time victory.

 

[tide15]

The AI didn't gang up on you for no reason, they ganged up on you because in their eyes, you acted as way more of a warmonger than Askia did.

DoW gives only a minor warmonger penalty compared to conquering a city, which you did twice. If you'd fought back against Askia, beaten his army, besieged his cities and then brokered for peace without actually conquering anything, you'd have been fine. You might have even gotten a city or two in the peace negotiation.

It's really no surprise they denounced you when you clearly showed you're a much bigger threat to them than Askia.

And there you have it!! That's how you should play if you don't want to look like a warmonger to the rest of the world.
I either wait for a DOW or wait to be invited. When I do I will try and kill as many enemy units as possible and take a city in the treaty negotiations.
Of course there are times I just can't help myself and conquer cities. It makes me happy when I go to another civ to trade and I'm called the bloodthirsty one

 

[pezit]

I was really mad at the AI for a while, and no I still don't think it's perfect. But since I stopped taking cities in wars I've been doing fine, they stop liking me because they have other ideologies or because I befriend people they dislike which makes sense to me.

 

[BUDISMYBUDDY]

Two scenarios:

1. Your next door neighbor punches you in the mouth one morning. In response, you punch him back, knock him out, sever his left leg, gouge out both of his eyes, and announce to your neighbors that you're going to keep the leg and the eyes. When neighbors express alarm, you reply "He started it, and I was just defending myself." Neighbors begin talking about how to deal with you before you turn on them.

2. Your next door neighbor punches you in the mouth one morning. In response, you punch him back, and after some skirmishing, he agrees to give you his new riding lawn mower and $1,000 in cash. The rest of your neighbors think your next door neighbor is nuts and got what he deserved.

You can manage other AI reactions by exercising calculated restraint. Review this thread for a great discussion of how to war without diplo penalties: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=516305

this is a hilarious and accurate example