air intercepters question

[Snerk]

Do anybody know all the details about air interception?

Someone established that:
1, A stack of SAMs on a tile doesnt increase the chance of intercepting first attacking plane. It remains on 40%

2) Intercepting units can only intercept one unit per turn, be they land or air units.

3) Additional units do not increase the chance for a single unit to intercept.


But, can someone test:

1, If spreading your SAMs out on sourounding tiles increases the chance of intercepting?

2, If you have a fighter and a SAM on a tile, will the SAM try to intercept if the fighter failes?

I would try it myself but im not quite sure how to do it, however i suspect it would have to be done in worldbuilder somehow.

QUOTE:
Here are some of the possibilities as I see them:

1) Each unit capable of intercepting unit gets a chance, in some order, to intercept an incoming unit, but once they have intercepted an incoming air unit they cannot attempt to do so again in the same turn. The order of intercept may be determined by one of the following:
a. The effective range of the intercepting unit.
b. The initial strength of the intercepting unit.
c. The current strength of the intercepting unit.
d. The type of the intercepting unit, combined with one of the above options, or some other undetermined factor (build order, etc.)
e. The order is completely random.
2) Each unit capable of inetercepting gets a chance to intercept each incoming unit regardless of whether they have done so previously. The same possible orders for intercepting exist, with an additional possible factor that all unused units (or all units of a type) will be cycled through before any previously used units.

3) Only one intercepting unit per attack gets a chance to intercept the attacking unit, but only if it has not intercepted yet in the turn. The order possiblities remain the same as above, however, there are some possibilities regarding whether or not the intercepting units percentages stack.
a. Percentages do not stack.
b. Percentages from the same type of intercepting unit do stack, but have an upper limit to the total.
c. Percentages from the same type of intercepting unit do not stack, but additional units of the same type add a bonus to the unit, with an upper limit to the total.
d. Percentages from all intercepting units in the city stack in the same manner as b. above.
e. Percentages from all intercepting units in the city stack in the same manner as c. above.
4) Same as 3) above, but intercepting units can attempt to intercept multiple times in a single turn.

 

[Snerk]

riiiight, i'll try one more time.
Can anybody help me with the questions above?

 

[Jarrod32]

I have some similar questions...but as for your questions:

1. Not sure, but I think it is only the square that they are on...except in the case of fighters...

2. I think I read somewhere that FIGHTERS can intercept anywhere within their range...but I think the attack has to take place in the range...just passing through the airspace (a recon mission, for example) shouldn't trigger the intercept...???

3. I'm pretty sure that this is the case. They have to be designated on an air superiority/intercept mission in order to intercept.

4. I would suspect that the chances increase. Each fighter gets a chance to intercept...if the first one fails, the second one gets a chance...

My questions are:

1. IF a fighter (or SAM, destroyer, Mech Inf) intercepts, is it an immediate loss of the attacker, or does it just mean that the two units become engaged in battle?

2. Can the same unit (a stationed fighter, for example) intercept more than one unit per turn? For example, if I am going to bomb a city I may have several bombers for the job. If a single fighter is on intercept mission, and my first bomber is intercepted, is the fighter done? Or can it intercept multiple attackers per turn?

 

[SPQR300]

I have a few questions about air interceptions.
Hope someone can help me out.

1, When do SAM, Mec.Inf. and destroyer intercept? when a plane attack the square they are on, or also the square next to, or any square they can move to?

2, Same question about fighters. Do they intercept in any square they can move to? ...that seems alot.

3, Do fighters only intercept when their on intercepting patrols?
(circeling over city)

4, If you have two intercepters on one square or overlapping their interception area, do that double or increase your chanse of intercepting?
(two units of 50% interceptions = 75% of interception??)

anybody?

1. Ground units intercept in the square they are in and in the sourrounding 8 squares. So they have a little range.
2. They can intercept in their whole operation range.
3. YES
4. Exactly. With a little addition: if one of the defenders successfully intercepts, it won't be able to intecept in the turn. So if you invade with 10 bombers, and the enemy has 2 intercepting units, then when 2 of your bombers have been intercepted, the other 8 has a free-road to bomb.

 

[Snerk]

1. Ground units intercept in the square they are in and in the sourrounding 8 squares. So they have a little range.
2. They can intercept in their whole operation range.
3. YES
4. Exactly. With a little addition: if one of the defenders successfully intercepts, it won't be able to intecept in the turn. So if you invade with 10 bombers, and the enemy has 2 intercepting units, then when 2 of your bombers have been intercepted, the other 8 has a free-road to bomb.

so this would meen,
If you have two intercepters on the same tile with 50% int. each, they have sum of 75% of int. If one of them int. the unit who int. will loose its abillity to int. and the sum is 50%. And if the last one int, both units cannot intercept for the rest of the turn and the sum is 0%

am i right?

 

[Bushface]

An interception does not necessarily destroy your aircraft; I have had some damaged ones return to base for 'healing'. Don't know if that means that the interceptor was shot down; that's something for me to keep an eye on.
Regarding multiple interceptions, the chances of escape vary according to how the game works in this respect. Usually percentages are additive (e.g. having Aluminium when building the Space Elevator is said to add 100%, but if your city has a base production of 30 to which are added 100% for power, forge and factory and another 100% for the Ironworks making 30+(100%of 30)+(100%of 30) = 90 then the extra 100% for Aluminium does not add 100% of 90 but yet another 100% of 30, making 120 in all). So if your enemy has 3 SAM units on a tile, each having a 40% chance of interception, then on that basis his chance becomes 3x40% = 120%, and your aircraft will never get past without at least suffering damage. On the other hand, if the SAMs attack successively then you get a 60% chance of the first one missing; if it does miss, then you have another 60% chance, making a 36% chance of both missing; and in that case you have again a 60% chance of a third miss. Your overall chance of surviving undamaged is 21.6%. If your stinking opponent has five SAMs in his best city, as I shall soon be facing, on that basis my attacking Bombers would have only a 7.8% chance of success. Luckily for me, Stealth Bombers will do rather better. What I do not know is what happens to a SAM unit which has tried to make an interception: does it die if it misses, get damaged if it just causes damage, or what ?
I am reminded of a joke from the time of the Arab-Israeli war. The Arabs are reputed to have sent a message to their arms suppliers "Stop sending surface-to-air missiles. Send surface-to-aircraft missiles."
Also, is it true that a SAM can only try once per turn to intercept ? Once per attacking aircraft, no doubt. Other units appear to have the ability to defend indefinitely, provided of course that they survive to do so. What of fighters ?

 

[Snerk]

well wich one is it?

Do 3 SAMs get a 120% chance of intercepting first attacking plane.

or do they intercept succesivly and get a 78,4% chance of intercepting first attacking plane?

......(unless stealth bomber)

 

[SPQR300]

I rather do some research. I think maybe it works like: it absolutely doesnt mather how many units are intercepting, only one of the defenders will intercept. So if 3 SAM infantry is defending a city, and an airplane attacks, the chance of interception will still be 40%.

 

[Kerrang]

From my experience playing the game, it would seem that the following are true, of course I did not code the game, so I am not certain (except on points 3 and 4):

1. The percentages do not stack, each defending unit has its own chance of intercepting each attack. Of course, the more intercepting units you have, the more chance you have of intercepting any given attack.

2. After a unit has intercepted once, it cannot do so again in the same turn.

3. Attacking units are not necessarily destroyed when intercepted, they sometimes take only a certain percentage of damage, and return to base to fly another turn, or be repaired.

4. Attacking fighters can damage/destroy enemy interceptors as well as being damaged/destroyed by them.

 

[Roland Johansen]

I rather do some research. I think maybe it works like: it absolutely doesnt mather how many units are intercepting, only one of the defenders will intercept. So if 3 SAM infantry is defending a city, and an airplane attacks, the chance of interception will still be 40%.

Based on my limited experience with bombing my enemies, I would also say that this is true. I've succesfully bombed cities stacked with SAM infantry. That would be complete suicide when each SAM infantry got a chance to intercept my first bomber.

Some additional information related to the questions asked here.

SAM infantry has an interception range of 1. It says so in the unit description and it means that any fighter or bomber bombing something within 1 tile of the SAM infantry can get intercepted.
Mechanized Infantry however don't have an interception range, so they only protect the square that they're defending.
Fighters have an interception range equal to their operational range, 6 for a fighter and 10 for a jet fighter. Note that diagonal tiles count for a range of 1.5. The total distance in diagonal and none diagonal tiles is added and rounded down.
A fighter/jet fighter on intercept can be intercepted by an attacking fighter/jet fighter. However in my experience, the defending fighter has the bigger chance to intercept.
Bombers/Stealth Bombers cannot intercept and also cannot intercept a fighter/jet fighter sent to intercept them when they're performing a bombing run.
SAM Infantry and Mechanized Infantry cannot be damaged during their intercept action.
Intercepted bombing runs do no damage.
Intercepted fighters/bombers seldom die although jet fighters are the most lethal defenders in my experience. I am yet to see a defending Mechanized Infantry really kill (as opposed to damage) a fighter/bomber on a bombing mission. But I've not seen so many interceptions by Mechanized Infantry so this can just be bad luck for the Mechanized Infantry. However the damage could very well be linked to the interception chance which is very low for mechanized infantry (20%) and very high for jet fighters (70%).

As far as I know, nobody has yet researched the interception chances with multiple fighters on intercept and different units performing bombing runs (stealth bombers have a special ability to avoid 50% of the interceptions. But 50% of what exactly. How is it calculated). Also nobody has researched the interception damage and how it is linked to unit strength, promotions of the defending units, terrain and city defence bonusses, interception chances of attacker and defender, etc. It's not that easy to get a complete picture of how it works.

 

[ZippyRiver]

his chance becomes 3x40% = 120%,

Not the case though. For example, a fighter is attempting to destroy a farm next to a city with 3 SAM units in it. Each SAM has a 40% chance. One unit's failure to intercept does not give the other unit an attack bonus. The fighter has to risk three 40% chances, not one 120% chance.

Facing 3 events is not enough of a "sample" for probability mathmatics to even out. Over a period of time, the fighter will get unlucky and get hit more often than if only facing one SAM. But a single run against 3 is no guarentee.

I have had fighters "shot down". Most of the time the unit returns damaged, but not always. It IS possible there were a number of defenders and it lost maybe two of three 40% rolls, causing the plane to zero-out it's hit points. We all see unlucky rng runs. But no amount of SAM defenders is going to provide 100% protection.

 

[ZippyRiver]

One other thing.... The AI cheats in regards to #3. I have seen it attack an improvement during it's turn, and intercept during my turn, and bomb again the following turn. I had taken measures to ensure no FOW over the combat area existed and knew the placement of all it's fighters.

Even though it used it's movement points to bomb, it gets put back on intercept. The human CAN do this too, but unit cycling makes it a real PITA.

 

[emills]

The attack and intercept ability of fighters/jets is the same as the attack/move and then fortify ability of ground units. Even when an unit has the red dot on its marker, it can still fortify, intercept, unload/load (in city).

As for the percent to intercept evade, I think this is one of the few instances that the percentages do not stack.

For example, a fighter has a 50% chance for intecepting incoming aircraft. A fighter or bomber attacks a city with the patrolling fighter and has two outcomes, damage the target (50%) or recieve damage itself (50%). Attacking a city with two intercepter aircraft change the percentages to 25% and 75% respectively.

What I really not sure is how the stealth works. Say stealth bomber vs 1 fighter. fighter has 50% to intercept, the stealth has 50% to evade. I do not think the result is a zero chance of interception (stacked). I would say it is a 25% chance of interception.

Then there is the jet fighter at 70% interception, multiple sams/destroyers/fighters combos. Airpower got hosed in this game, it seems too easy to defend even against stealth.

 

[Snerk]

Well then does two SAM units on the same tile have a better chance then one SAM of intercepting the first attacking plane, or do they remain on 40%? Or maybe the only bonus of two stacked together is that they can intercept two times in one turn?

Anybody know for sure?

 

[SPQR300]

Not the case though. For example, a fighter is attempting to destroy a farm next to a city with 3 SAM units in it. Each SAM has a 40% chance. One unit's failure to intercept does not give the other unit an attack bonus. The fighter has to risk three 40% chances, not one 120% chance.

Facing 3 events is not enough of a "sample" for probability mathmatics to even out. Over a period of time, the fighter will get unlucky and get hit more often than if only facing one SAM. But a single run against 3 is no guarentee.

I have had fighters "shot down". Most of the time the unit returns damaged, but not always. It IS possible there were a number of defenders and it lost maybe two of three 40% rolls, causing the plane to zero-out it's hit points. We all see unlucky rng runs. But no amount of SAM defenders is going to provide 100% protection.

Not the case. If there are 60000000000000 Sam Infantries defending, the chance of succesful bombardment is still 60%, and the chance of beeing intercepted is still only 40%. I have just tested it. I put dozens of SAM infantries in a city, but most of the bombings were still successful.

 

[Artanis]

Not the case. If there are 60000000000000 Sam Infantries defending, the chance of succesful bombardment is still 60%, and the chance of beeing intercepted is still only 40%. I have just tested it. I put dozens of SAM infantries in a city, but most of the bombings were still successful.

Good to know. In fact, I was just about to suggest somebody testing this out

 

[Snerk]

Not the case. If there are 60000000000000 Sam Infantries defending, the chance of succesful bombardment is still 60%, and the chance of beeing intercepted is still only 40%. I have just tested it. I put dozens of SAM infantries in a city, but most of the bombings were still successful.

are you completly sure? because this would mean a change of tactics from my side?

 

[Artanis]

are you completly sure? because this would mean a change of tactics from my side?

I can't test it from here at work, but it at least fits with what I've experienced. Time and time again, I've sent Bombers straight into the teeth of a dozen (or more!) anti-air units and had the majority of them come out the other size completely intact, and I've NEVER seen a SAM intercept an airplane when there was an unused Fighter-type plane around to do so for them. Neither of these would be true if it didn't work the way SPQR300 describes.

 

[Snerk]

Very intreaging... I usally stack lots of SAM units on my precious resourses thinking they are safe from attacks. Nevertheless they tend to get destroyed now and then wich i never really thaught about untill now. lol!

 

[ZippyRiver]

I wonder the impact then if you spread em around a bit. One SAM in each of 5 tiles stands a better chance than 5 SAM on one tile perhaps.

edit: will have to try that when my current game gets that far. Make a tic-tac-toe box of SAM around the city getting attacked.