[NFP] Aircraft carriers and random thoughts.

[King of Prussia]

So i played a small continents game recently as the Netherlands. I decided to go for a dom victory mainly using my navy. As most of the enemy cities were far away, i decided on top of using my upgraded battleships, i would try using carriers. After completing said victory, i came to the conclusion that these are nearly useless and provide a ton of annoying management.

Aircraft carriers only have 2 slots for aircraft. You would need to build a lot of these to bring a decent airforce.

Carriers have to melee to gain XP. That is right, your plane transport has to melee to actually gain XP. Why is this a thing? Why cant we use a similar system to GDR to make them better with different techs or give them XP based on what the planes are doing? Both systems are in the game already. We had a similar thing with sumeria and friends nearby.

There is no deploy and follow with the carrier function for your fighters. You have to manually move them to redeploy above your carriers every turn. You can not deploy fighters in enemy territory, which means once your fleet moves in, they have no air cover outside of the AA on those ships.

Between deploying for fighters and the long range bombers have in general, you can just toss them in cities or aerodomes and hit things far enough away to the point that carriers seem pointless.

The AI doesnt deploy it's fighters to defend its cities. They just move from place to place until they feel like attacking. You can easily just attack the planes in the aerodomes to finish them off.

I get they wanted to make planes more useful but im not sure fighters should be one shotting or easily crippling units by themselves. They should be for defense, chip damage, or attacking support units. Quick mention of the fact the AI never builds AA support units.

I recommend having an AA unit (support or other troop that provides it) with your fighter. When they attack your fighter, your AA unit gets free damage applied to their fighter, thus weakening it so it does less damage to yours. The difference is very noticeable.

I will also just reference my past posts on why planes are so rare, and my issue with the strategic resources in the late game.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...l-is-still-broken.658373/page-7#post-15778180
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ6-june-update-video.659520/page-18#post-15809163


I will admit i am not an expert on air combat. The AI rarely makes or uses them. The games are often over before they become impactful. Unlike Civ V, having an airforce is not that important because the AI likely wont have one or use it. Making one even as a player is a chore.


A bug i noticed, when your unit has all possible promotions, it still gains XP like it can have another, and will prompt the UI that you have an available promotion when it doesn't. Seems like an easy fix.

 

[Linklite]

I usually use Grand Admirals to boost their promotions, so I can get the 5 slots. I do feel they seriously need to redo the experience gaining mechanic. Personally, I think they should get exp from successful bombing runs and intercepts. At the moment, I use them to capture coastal cities (because that is how they're used in real life, right? Always funny to see a carrier donate broadside) because that's the most secure way to gain exp, but it should come from launching missions.

One thing I'd add is that aluminium is far too rare for the number of planes it supports. You could never actually use a fighter screen to protect your empire - you might only half a dozen planes to cover twice as many cities. Thankfully, the AI doesn't generally attack with their air force, but air battles would be nightmare otherwise. I'd say increase the number of aircraft supported by one aluminium. Still maintains the scarcity of the resource while making it more useful.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The major and overwhelming problem with air forces and aircraft in Civ VI remains (as the OP noted) that the game is usually over long before you get a chance to build any aircraft. In over 3000 hours of playing time, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of games in which I have built any aircraft at all, let alone enough of them to actually make a difference in combat or Domination. Until that problem is fixed, tweaking the amount of Aluminum required or the method of obtaining Experience for aircraft carriers is just another re-arranging of deck chairs on the Shinano.

 

[Linklite]

The major and overwhelming problem with air forces and aircraft in Civ VI remains (as the OP noted) that the game is usually over long before you get a chance to build any aircraft. In over 3000 hours of playing time, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of games in which I have built any aircraft at all, let alone enough of them to actually make a difference in combat or Domination. Until that problem is fixed, tweaking the amount of Aluminum required or the method of obtaining Experience for aircraft carriers is just another re-arranging of deck chairs on the Shinano.

Eh, speak for yourself. I get to carriers quite often.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Well of course I'm speaking for myself: who else would I be speaking for?
Just saying that my experience has been that the last Era or two of the game are largely wasted because the game is either already over by then, won with a Cultural, Domination or Religious Victory, or has become so dull with inevitable victory that I quit and go on to something else. The only time I ever played into the Information Era was to get a Scientific Victory, and to do that I had to consciously avoid achieving a Cultural Victory an Era earlier and was also consciously avoiding building anything but defensive forces like Artillery and Fighter aircraft and AA/AT units.

 

[DanQuayle]

Well of course I'm speaking for myself: who else would I be speaking for?
Just saying that my experience has been that the last Era or two of the game are largely wasted because the game is either already over by then, won with a Cultural, Domination or Religious Victory, or has become so dull with inevitable victory that I quit and go on to something else. The only time I ever played into the Information Era was to get a Scientific Victory, and to do that I had to consciously avoid achieving a Cultural Victory an Era earlier and was also consciously avoiding building anything but defensive forces like Artillery and Fighter aircraft and AA/AT units.

The only way I found to make the late game relevant is to play at online speed.
I personally dislike making a fast-paced game even faster, but it is undeniable that it does nerf movement/domination-based strategies.
Even if you still win in the early T100s at online speed, you should have unlocked air units by then.
Now, does the AI have air units by then? That is another question..

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The only way I found to make the late game relevant is to play at online speed.
I personally dislike making a fast-paced game even faster, but it is undeniable that it does nerf movement/domination-based strategies.
Even if you still win in the early T100s at online speed, you should have unlocked air units by then.
Now, does the AI have air units by then? That is another question..

Unlocked air units, yes - built them, rarely. And that is related to your next sentence - I can, again, count on the fingers of one hand the number of times the AI has built an air force, so unless in the game I'm still in the middle of a balanced Domination push when aircraft become technically available, there just isn't that much reason to build aerodromes/airfields within range of enemy cities and then build and deploy Bombers to them, when a couple of Battleships or Artillery/Rocket Artillery units will do the same thing for a lot less work and time. From other posts it appears that in the latest versions of the game the AI is building air units and using them, but I haven't seen it yet . . .

This is areal shame and a major problem in the late game, IMHO, since in many ways Air Power was one of the defining military elements of the twentieth century and if anything, air power including drones and 'smart' missiles is becoming even more important in the 21st. So, the Atomic and Information Eras at least are getting short changed by making building an Air Force both cumbersome and far too often unnecessary.

 

[PiR]

I agree for Aircraft carriers. They are so slow that it's better to find another way to transport your planes where you want them.
But for planes in general? Well yes the AI doesn't use them, so I don't make fighters, but I do make bombers, and I love bombing cities and quickly reducing their defenses with that.

 

[Bibor]

Alternative: grab an engineer and build an airstrip in neutral terrain. Services up to 3 planes and can't be sunk. Usually a few strips do it, depending whether you capture or raze cities on the other continent.

 

[PiR]

Exactly. Even with 1 bomber per city, you usually can progress into enemy territory and use your bombers on the next city you want to take, with their long range.

 

[King of Prussia]

If you start in a later era, you will see the AI build more planes. Districts being super cheap also helps with the issue of needing aerodomes before you can build a plane.