hetairoi22
Of the House of Eorl
In "Ancient Greece: a Handbook" it says that "widespread use of Iron in Greece" began in c. 950 BC
Alexander the Great Scenario: Units Thread
- Thread starter Exsanguination
- Start date
- Status
Originally posted by Exsanguination
You are quite WRONG!
NONE of these units will be animated. The only units being animated currently are Kryten's Companion Cavalry, Civanator's Merc Hoplite and anything SM produces. ALL of my units are just pictures like in civ2. We'd be here fer another year if we waited for them all to be animated!
--Ex
AHHHHHHHH! Oh well I STILL LOVE YOUR UNITS!
Exsanguination
No longer here
Forgive me for not posting this yesterday when it was supposed to be posted...
The Bactrian Cavalry
Courtesy of Ex
Stats: 14/6/2
Special Abilities: None
Civ: Persia
Resources: Horses, Iron
Information: Little is known about this cavalry unit in particular. Its unit was commanded by Bessus, satrap of Bactria under Darius. At the Battle of Gaugamela troops of Bactrians stood alongside the Perisan Horse and Armenian Cavalry as the main offensive line against Alexander. Since it was armored, this horseman was able to withstand harder and more hits than the average horseman, but as a consequence it required more resources and costed more to produce. Nonetheless, the Bactrian Cavalry stood as Darius' best offensive fighting force, fighting in almost all of his battles.
Up next: Athenian Hoplite (tonight)
The Bactrian Cavalry
Courtesy of Ex
Stats: 14/6/2
Special Abilities: None
Civ: Persia
Resources: Horses, Iron
Information: Little is known about this cavalry unit in particular. Its unit was commanded by Bessus, satrap of Bactria under Darius. At the Battle of Gaugamela troops of Bactrians stood alongside the Perisan Horse and Armenian Cavalry as the main offensive line against Alexander. Since it was armored, this horseman was able to withstand harder and more hits than the average horseman, but as a consequence it required more resources and costed more to produce. Nonetheless, the Bactrian Cavalry stood as Darius' best offensive fighting force, fighting in almost all of his battles.
Up next: Athenian Hoplite (tonight)
Smoking mirror
Ships Captain
Exsanguination
No longer here
Smoking Mirror!Excellent job, I love it already. This could easily be used as the generic horseman or maybe the Armenian/Hyrcanian Cavalry of Persia. It looks pretty good the way it is, I can't think of anything else to add. Adding a saddle or armor would just make it look like every other horseman/cavalry. Hey, perhaps I could even use this to replace the Prodromoi!
Also, how are the city sets coming along? Are you still working on those? Your earlier previews were awesome (I know this is the wrong thread for that question, but hey, I'm the head!
)Just curious SM, its 4:00 EST now, what time is it over there in England?
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
Lots to cover....again.....
Hetairoi22 is right about the "Iron Age". Although the Hittites were using iron weapons way back in 1500 BC, this knowledge spread slowly. Interestingly enough, the end of the bronze age in about 950 BC was the also time that the Dorian culture evolved into the Greek culture (Sparta for example was founded in about 900 BC). Coincidence?
Yes you are!
(Let's see if I can slow you down a bit so that I can catch up....)
Bactrian Cavalry: I like it . Just a couple of things; could you make his spear brighter, as did doesn't stand out very well against the black horse. Maybe the civ3 Horsemans 'yellowish' spear perhaps?
Also, give me about 15 minutes and I'll post a quick tutorial in the "Creating Units: cut-'n-paste way" thread about how to quickly make some convincing scale armour horse protection.
Right Handed Soldiers: have a look at my post with the "Scythian Warrior" in it (good name BTW) on the previous page.
Instead of just 'mirroring' the frame, you could make two frames, one facing SW and the other SE insted, as I did in examples 'B' & 'F'. It takes a bit longer, and does look slightly better, but it's up to you to decide whether it's worth it.
Athenian Hoplite: actually, the civ3 Hoplite has a 'gorgon' as a shield emblem. This one of the many emblems used by Athens, who didn't display a national symbol on their shields like the Thebans (club of Hercules) or the Lacadaemonians (the greek letter 'lambda'). They just let every man display what ever they liked, as did the Mercenaries.
Unit Classes: I wonder if you could post a simple table of the 'average' stats you're thinking of using for each of the 6 different unit types (you know, Hvy Inf, Med Inf, Lt Inf, Hvy Cav, Lt Cav and Horse Arch)? It's just that when you post stats of the "Prodromoi Horseman"as being 8-3-3 for example, it's difficult to judge it because we have nothing to compare it with. Something like "the Companions will be Hvy Cav with above average attack (due to their lances), average defence, and high morale (more hit points). While the Bactrians will be Hvy Cav with average Attack, above average defence (due their armour), and average morale)". Then we can all just look at your 'average' stats for each unit class and get an idea of how each one can be pigeonholed and how it fits in the pecking order.
Picture Index: do you think would it be a good idea if I made a short verbal list of all the different figures that appear in all those pictures that I posted on page 1 of this thread? That way you could just look down the list to say, the "Agrianian Javelinman", find out that he is the 2nd figure in picture #6, then go straight there to see what he looks like.
But if you think it's not neccessary then let me know and I won't bother.
Anyway, I'm off to the "Cut-n'-Paste" thread now to give some examples of scale horse-armour.
Hetairoi22 is right about the "Iron Age". Although the Hittites were using iron weapons way back in 1500 BC, this knowledge spread slowly. Interestingly enough, the end of the bronze age in about 950 BC was the also time that the Dorian culture evolved into the Greek culture (Sparta for example was founded in about 900 BC). Coincidence?
Originally posted by Exsanguination
Am I creating units too fast for you to critique, Kryten?
Yes you are!
(Let's see if I can slow you down a bit so that I can catch up....)
Bactrian Cavalry: I like it
. Just a couple of things; could you make his spear brighter, as did doesn't stand out very well against the black horse. Maybe the civ3 Horsemans 'yellowish' spear perhaps?Also, give me about 15 minutes and I'll post a quick tutorial in the "Creating Units: cut-'n-paste way" thread about how to quickly make some convincing scale armour horse protection.
Right Handed Soldiers: have a look at my post with the "Scythian Warrior" in it (good name BTW) on the previous page.
Instead of just 'mirroring' the frame, you could make two frames, one facing SW and the other SE insted, as I did in examples 'B' & 'F'. It takes a bit longer, and does look slightly better, but it's up to you to decide whether it's worth it.
Athenian Hoplite: actually, the civ3 Hoplite has a 'gorgon' as a shield emblem. This one of the many emblems used by Athens, who didn't display a national symbol on their shields like the Thebans (club of Hercules) or the Lacadaemonians (the greek letter 'lambda'). They just let every man display what ever they liked, as did the Mercenaries.
Unit Classes: I wonder if you could post a simple table of the 'average' stats you're thinking of using for each of the 6 different unit types (you know, Hvy Inf, Med Inf, Lt Inf, Hvy Cav, Lt Cav and Horse Arch)? It's just that when you post stats of the "Prodromoi Horseman"as being 8-3-3 for example, it's difficult to judge it because we have nothing to compare it with. Something like "the Companions will be Hvy Cav with above average attack (due to their lances), average defence, and high morale (more hit points). While the Bactrians will be Hvy Cav with average Attack, above average defence (due their armour), and average morale)". Then we can all just look at your 'average' stats for each unit class and get an idea of how each one can be pigeonholed and how it fits in the pecking order.
Picture Index: do you think would it be a good idea if I made a short verbal list of all the different figures that appear in all those pictures that I posted on page 1 of this thread? That way you could just look down the list to say, the "Agrianian Javelinman", find out that he is the 2nd figure in picture #6, then go straight there to see what he looks like.
But if you think it's not neccessary then let me know and I won't bother.
Anyway, I'm off to the "Cut-n'-Paste" thread now to give some examples of scale horse-armour.
Exsanguination
No longer here
Alrighty... now here's my bit :
TWO frames? What do you think I am, a machine? (I'll give it a try!)
About the 'avg stats'. I could do that, but I think it would be a little misleading since none of the units will really have anything to do with them. The idea is that each unit is exactly suited to its purpose, not some generic table. This is why the Prodromoi is 8/3/3 with radar (scout - no armor, not meant for attacking), or the Bactrian Cavalry is 14/6/2 (heavy cavalry, very useful, high defense for a cavalry). But anyhow, here is a good idea of a basis for each unit:
Heavy Infantry: 10/6/1 (remind you of anything). Very good defender, relatively weak attack.
Medium Infantry: 8/8/1 Good for either use - attack or defense.
Light Infantry: 7/4/1 Good attack, better defense/attack ratio than heavy infantry, cheap.
Heavy Cavalry: 14/4/2 Pretty much the Bactrian Cavalry. Useful for many tasks, but extremely potent on the attack.
Medium Cavalry: 10/4/2 Just less attack.
Light Cavalry: 8/2/2 Weak but cheap. This unit can also be faster, with a movement of 3.
The reason I dislike posting that is because the only units that really follow that basis are the generic ones, and they lack true cavalry. The Hypaspist is a very good example, it was an extreme utility infantry unit: could be used for scouting, attacking, holding a line, backing up cavalry... whatever. This unit would stick out like a sore thumb in that list (btw, I've come up with a better way to simulate its speed, wait and find out.).
Another thing to keep in mind is that different civs usesd infantry for different purposes. Persia barely even used infantry, and when it did, it was for sheer numbers. Alexander, on the other hand, used his infantry for defensive purposes only.
I think I'm seeing where our disagreement lies: in civ3, 'defensive' units are generally used to defend cities, and 'offensive' units are used in the open battlefield. So one should suggest that the Phalangite (being that it didn't defend cities) should be an offensive unit. This is not true. The real use of the Phalangite in the battle is not to attack, but to hold your line. First, you throw arrers and javelins all overthe enemy (bombardment). Second, you throw your onslaught of cavalry and hypaspists to destroy the enemy's defenses. LAST, (in civ3) you put you phalangites essentially as 'placeholders' to retain the line and not get driven back. As you can see, this strategy allows for constant pushing FORWARD, without the need for constant retreating and healing.
The Picture Index is a great idea.
:TWO frames? What do you think I am, a machine?
(I'll give it a try!)About the 'avg stats'. I could do that, but I think it would be a little misleading since none of the units will really have anything to do with them
. The idea is that each unit is exactly suited to its purpose, not some generic table. This is why the Prodromoi is 8/3/3 with radar (scout - no armor, not meant for attacking), or the Bactrian Cavalry is 14/6/2 (heavy cavalry, very useful, high defense for a cavalry). But anyhow, here is a good idea of a basis for each unit:Heavy Infantry: 10/6/1 (remind you of anything
). Very good defender, relatively weak attack.Medium Infantry: 8/8/1 Good for either use - attack or defense.
Light Infantry: 7/4/1 Good attack, better defense/attack ratio than heavy infantry, cheap.
Heavy Cavalry: 14/4/2 Pretty much the Bactrian Cavalry. Useful for many tasks, but extremely potent on the attack.
Medium Cavalry: 10/4/2 Just less attack.
Light Cavalry: 8/2/2 Weak but cheap. This unit can also be faster, with a movement of 3.
The reason I dislike posting that is because the only units that really follow that basis are the generic ones, and they lack true cavalry. The Hypaspist is a very good example, it was an extreme utility infantry unit: could be used for scouting, attacking, holding a line, backing up cavalry... whatever. This unit would stick out like a sore thumb in that list (btw, I've come up with a better way to simulate its speed, wait and find out.
).Another thing to keep in mind is that different civs usesd infantry for different purposes. Persia barely even used infantry, and when it did, it was for sheer numbers. Alexander, on the other hand, used his infantry for defensive purposes only.
I think I'm seeing where our disagreement lies: in civ3, 'defensive' units are generally used to defend cities, and 'offensive' units are used in the open battlefield. So one should suggest that the Phalangite (being that it didn't defend cities) should be an offensive unit. This is not true. The real use of the Phalangite in the battle is not to attack, but to hold your line. First, you throw arrers and javelins all overthe enemy (bombardment). Second, you throw your onslaught of cavalry and hypaspists to destroy the enemy's defenses. LAST, (in civ3) you put you phalangites essentially as 'placeholders' to retain the line and not get driven back. As you can see, this strategy allows for constant pushing FORWARD, without the need for constant retreating and healing.
The Picture Index is a great idea
.
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
I too like the unit Smoking Mirror.
And I think Exsanguination is right, it would make a good "Prodromoi", becuse it looks like he is carrying a lance with with to "prod" things with.
Then Exsanguination can use that first unit that he created as a "Paeonian Light Horseman".
Exsanguination,
Your 'average unit classes' list is useful.
Now when you say that the Mercenary Hoplites are average Hvy Inf, or the Spartans are good quality Hvy Inf, or that Citizen Hoplites (who are only part-time soldiers) are poor quality Hvy Inf, we have a rough idea of where to place them, even if you don't give any specific stats.
And the Phalangite could be discribed as a good quality Hvy Inf with the special ability of extra defence.
I know it's only a guide, but I think it does help (well....it helps me ).
I notice that you've given the Med & Light Inf a speed of 1, the same as Hvy Inf. I assume this is because of your new 'cunning plan' with the movement.
And I'll knock-up that 'Unit Picture Index' tomorrow.
(BTW, it's 11:20 pm over here at the time of my posting this. )
And I think Exsanguination is right, it would make a good "Prodromoi", becuse it looks like he is carrying a lance with with to "prod" things with.
Then Exsanguination can use that first unit that he created as a "Paeonian Light Horseman".
Exsanguination,
Your 'average unit classes' list is useful.
Now when you say that the Mercenary Hoplites are average Hvy Inf, or the Spartans are good quality Hvy Inf, or that Citizen Hoplites (who are only part-time soldiers) are poor quality Hvy Inf, we have a rough idea of where to place them, even if you don't give any specific stats.
And the Phalangite could be discribed as a good quality Hvy Inf with the special ability of extra defence.
I know it's only a guide, but I think it does help (well....it helps me
).I notice that you've given the Med & Light Inf a speed of 1, the same as Hvy Inf. I assume this is because of your new 'cunning plan' with the movement.
And I'll knock-up that 'Unit Picture Index' tomorrow.
(BTW, it's 11:20 pm over here at the time of my posting this.
)
Exsanguination
No longer here
Originally posted by Kryten
Your 'average unit classes' list is useful.
Now when you say that the Mercenary Hoplites are average Hvy Inf, or the Spartans are good quality Hvy Inf, or that Citizen Hoplites (who are only part-time soldiers) are poor quality Hvy Inf, we have a rough idea of where to place them, even if you don't give any specific stats.
And the Phalangite could be discribed as a good quality Hvy Inf with the special ability of extra defence.
I know it's only a guide, but I think it does help (well....it helps me
If you say so!
I notice that you've given the Med & Light Inf a speed of 1, the same as Hvy Inf. I assume this is because of your new 'cunning plan' with the movement.
The difference in speed of those three units is negligible. The only foot units with 'fast' movement are the Hypaspists and Peltasts, as they were renowned for their amazing speed.
I've taken a daylong sabbatical off unit-creating, but by tomorrow I should have the Bactrian Cavalry and Apple-Bearer ready to go.
Here is a list of units I'm making and their status:
-Royal Kinsmen (model done)
-Apple-Bearer (model, shadows done)
-Bactrian Cavlary (model, shadows, and some storyboard done)
-Thessalian Cavlary (model done)
-Hyrcanian Cavalry (no progress)
-Armenian Cavalry (no progress)
-Parthian Cavalry (no progress)
-Paeonian Light Horseman (up for a remake)
I believe thats all. If there are any more that need creation, just tell me.
--Ex
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
As an aid to help in the creation of some of the many units for this scenario, I have made this index of all the different troop types that can be found in all the pictures and illustrations shown on the 1st page of this thread.
PICTURE INDEX
--------------------
Picture #1: Persian Foot Guards (starting on the right and moving left .)
Darius III, = wearing a purple robe with the broad white Median Stripe in front.
Royal Spearbearer or Apple-Bearer = this shows an Hezaraptis or guard commander.
Royal Standard-Bearer = the flag shows a version of the Winged Sun Disk of Persia.
(All these figures are at rest, and so are not wearing any visible battle protection, but see picture #5 for how they would be dressed on the battlefield)
Picture #2: Persian Mounted Guards
Royal Kinsmen = Darius mounted bodyguard.
(Several satrap rulers also had their own Mounted Kinsmen Bodyguards, but they would not be dressed in the royal purple)
Picture #3: Alexander versus the Indians (starting on the right and moving left .)
Indian Swordman = armed with a long sword and a blue oblong shield, rounded at the top.
Indian Bamboo Bowman = armed with the 2 yard/meter bow (a 2nd figure is kneeling).
Indian War Elephant = with 1 warrior with a spear and a driver armed with javelins.
Phalangites = all wearing slightly different variations of Thracian type helmets.
Picture #4: Mercenary Hoplites (starting on the right and moving left .)
Hoplite with a Thracian helmet = the symbol on the shield is not a Greek letter.
Hoplite with a crestless Corinthian helmet = the symbol is a trident or the Greek letter psi.
Hoplite with a pilos helmet = and I think we all recognise the symbol on the shield.
Hoplite with an Attic helmet = this is the type of helmet worn by the Civ3 Hoplite.
(Mercenaries were a rough and ready looking lot, who would prefer to spend their pay on functional rather than fancy equipment).
Picture #5: Persian Heavy Infantry (starting with the figure in the foreground .)
Kardaces = these fought at the battle of Issues, with a spear and crescent shield.
Spearbearer = this figure is wearing a Greek type cuirass and a polished silver shield.
Archer of the Spearbearers = also with a cuirass, these would form the rear ranks of the unit.
(To the left rear you can see a unit standard bearer, also with a polished silver shield)
Picture #6: Alexanders Light Infantry (staring with the figure in the foreground .)
Greek Peltast = with an old-fashioned pelta type shield and javelins.
Agrianian Javelinman = the snake symbol on the shield is not a national symbol.
Archer and Staff-Slinger = the staff-sling was an attempt to increase the range and weight of shot of the standard slinger. However, it was not a successful skirmish weapon and soon disappeared from use (probably because its rate of fire was slow or for the long training time it took to use it effectively).
Picture #7: Thracian Peltasts (starting from the right and moving left .)
Thracian with a Thracian helmet = in his left hand is a kopis, an alternative to a sword.
Thracian with a Thracian hat = the two-handed rhomphia was not used in Alexanders time.
Thracian with a pilos helmet = he carries extra javelins behind his thureos type shield.
(In the rear is an early Thracian with a pelta type shield)
Picture #8: Citizen Hoplites (starting from the left and moving right .)
Various Hoplites with Attic helmets = these wore much fancier equipment then the Mercenaries.
Slinger with a kausia hat = some ancient slingers also carried a small round shield.
Early Thracian Peltast = with the usual javelins and early pelta type shield.
Spartan General = Spartans wore their head in long braids like their old Doric ancestors.
Musician with flute = these maintained a rhythm to help keep the formation in step.
(Most city-states allowed their Hoplites to display whatever they liked on their shields, with the exception of Sparta and Thebes)
Picture #9: Alexanders Heavy Cavalry (starting from the right and moving left .)
Hvy Cav with an Attic helmet = this would be one of Alexanders Greek allies.
Hvy Cav with a Thracian helmet = these helmets were state issued in the Macedonian army.
Companion with a Boeotian helmet = the lance identifies him as a Companion.
Alexander without a helmet = .a bit of artistic licence here; he certainly would have worn one.
Hvy Cav with a shield = more artistic licence; cavalry didnt carry shields in this period.
Hvy Cav with sword = he would be at a severe disadvantage; a spear would outreach him.
(In the rear you can see a mixture of helmets, with the Thracian type predominating. This is due to rich noblemen being able to afford their own equipment and not have to put up with the standard state issue helmet)
Picture #10: Persian Cavalry (starting from the front .)
Scythe Chariot = formidable looking, but vulnerable to missiles and not very effective in battle.
Bactrian Cavalry = horse and rider wearing iron scale armour, the man thrusting his spear overarm.
Cappadocian Horseman = horse and rider wearing bronze scale armour this time.
In the background, various Light Horse Archers.
Note that although not shown, the Massagetai (a Saka or east Scythian people) who fought at Gaugamela looked very similar to the Bactrians.
And the Armenians, who are also not shown, would look very similar to the Cappadocians.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope all this helps when trying to find out what various units looked like.
What I havent got is any pictures of all the many different types of poor quality infantry that the Persians frequently fielded. But almost all of them would be variations of the Civ3 Warrior and Spearman, with either a bare or Persian head.
PICTURE INDEX
--------------------
Picture #1: Persian Foot Guards (starting on the right and moving left .)
Darius III, = wearing a purple robe with the broad white Median Stripe in front.
Royal Spearbearer or Apple-Bearer = this shows an Hezaraptis or guard commander.
Royal Standard-Bearer = the flag shows a version of the Winged Sun Disk of Persia.
(All these figures are at rest, and so are not wearing any visible battle protection, but see picture #5 for how they would be dressed on the battlefield)
Picture #2: Persian Mounted Guards
Royal Kinsmen = Darius mounted bodyguard.
(Several satrap rulers also had their own Mounted Kinsmen Bodyguards, but they would not be dressed in the royal purple)
Picture #3: Alexander versus the Indians (starting on the right and moving left .)
Indian Swordman = armed with a long sword and a blue oblong shield, rounded at the top.
Indian Bamboo Bowman = armed with the 2 yard/meter bow (a 2nd figure is kneeling).
Indian War Elephant = with 1 warrior with a spear and a driver armed with javelins.
Phalangites = all wearing slightly different variations of Thracian type helmets.
Picture #4: Mercenary Hoplites (starting on the right and moving left .)
Hoplite with a Thracian helmet = the symbol on the shield is not a Greek letter.
Hoplite with a crestless Corinthian helmet = the symbol is a trident or the Greek letter psi.
Hoplite with a pilos helmet = and I think we all recognise the symbol on the shield.
Hoplite with an Attic helmet = this is the type of helmet worn by the Civ3 Hoplite.
(Mercenaries were a rough and ready looking lot, who would prefer to spend their pay on functional rather than fancy equipment).
Picture #5: Persian Heavy Infantry (starting with the figure in the foreground .)
Kardaces = these fought at the battle of Issues, with a spear and crescent shield.
Spearbearer = this figure is wearing a Greek type cuirass and a polished silver shield.
Archer of the Spearbearers = also with a cuirass, these would form the rear ranks of the unit.
(To the left rear you can see a unit standard bearer, also with a polished silver shield)
Picture #6: Alexanders Light Infantry (staring with the figure in the foreground .)
Greek Peltast = with an old-fashioned pelta type shield and javelins.
Agrianian Javelinman = the snake symbol on the shield is not a national symbol.
Archer and Staff-Slinger = the staff-sling was an attempt to increase the range and weight of shot of the standard slinger. However, it was not a successful skirmish weapon and soon disappeared from use (probably because its rate of fire was slow or for the long training time it took to use it effectively).
Picture #7: Thracian Peltasts (starting from the right and moving left .)
Thracian with a Thracian helmet = in his left hand is a kopis, an alternative to a sword.
Thracian with a Thracian hat = the two-handed rhomphia was not used in Alexanders time.
Thracian with a pilos helmet = he carries extra javelins behind his thureos type shield.
(In the rear is an early Thracian with a pelta type shield)
Picture #8: Citizen Hoplites (starting from the left and moving right .)
Various Hoplites with Attic helmets = these wore much fancier equipment then the Mercenaries.
Slinger with a kausia hat = some ancient slingers also carried a small round shield.
Early Thracian Peltast = with the usual javelins and early pelta type shield.
Spartan General = Spartans wore their head in long braids like their old Doric ancestors.
Musician with flute = these maintained a rhythm to help keep the formation in step.
(Most city-states allowed their Hoplites to display whatever they liked on their shields, with the exception of Sparta and Thebes)
Picture #9: Alexanders Heavy Cavalry (starting from the right and moving left .)
Hvy Cav with an Attic helmet = this would be one of Alexanders Greek allies.
Hvy Cav with a Thracian helmet = these helmets were state issued in the Macedonian army.
Companion with a Boeotian helmet = the lance identifies him as a Companion.
Alexander without a helmet = .a bit of artistic licence here; he certainly would have worn one.
Hvy Cav with a shield = more artistic licence; cavalry didnt carry shields in this period.
Hvy Cav with sword = he would be at a severe disadvantage; a spear would outreach him.
(In the rear you can see a mixture of helmets, with the Thracian type predominating. This is due to rich noblemen being able to afford their own equipment and not have to put up with the standard state issue helmet)
Picture #10: Persian Cavalry (starting from the front .)
Scythe Chariot = formidable looking, but vulnerable to missiles and not very effective in battle.
Bactrian Cavalry = horse and rider wearing iron scale armour, the man thrusting his spear overarm.
Cappadocian Horseman = horse and rider wearing bronze scale armour this time.
In the background, various Light Horse Archers.
Note that although not shown, the Massagetai (a Saka or east Scythian people) who fought at Gaugamela looked very similar to the Bactrians.
And the Armenians, who are also not shown, would look very similar to the Cappadocians.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I hope all this helps when trying to find out what various units looked like.
What I havent got is any pictures of all the many different types of poor quality infantry that the Persians frequently fielded. But almost all of them would be variations of the Civ3 Warrior and Spearman, with either a bare or Persian head.
Exsanguination
No longer here
Aye! I forgot again! Damn homework...
The Citizen Hoplite
Courtesy of Firaxis
Stats: 6/10/1
Unit Abilities: Foot Unit, Amphibious, Wheeled
Civ: League of Corinth, Lacedaemonia, Ionia
Resources: Copper, Tin
Information: The citizen hoplite was the first truly successful infantry unit of the ancient age. It was feared all across the Western world in battles until the rise of Macedonia and the rule of Philip, when the Phalangite showed itself more worthy. Although it is a potentially devastatingunit, capable of knocking down any offensive attack, the hoplite has many requirements and cannot enter mountains. This is because of the extremely bulky armor worn by the unit; armor that needed large stores of bronze to create. Regardless of these pitfalls, the hoplite is relatively cheap in comparison to other units.
***I welcome any criticism of this unit's stats. I gave it a low attack to simulate its purpose on the battlefield, anda high defense to serve its purpose. I will not, however, sway on the 'wheeled' ability (ability? ) or its resource requirements.
Up Next: Mardian Archer (tonight, hopefully)
EDIT: Stats changed to 6/10/1. Kryten was right; I forgot about the Mercs, which should be weaker than this unit but not too weak.
EDIT 2: Unit now called "Citizen Hoplite". It is available to all the Greek civs.
The Citizen Hoplite
Courtesy of Firaxis
Stats: 6/10/1
Unit Abilities: Foot Unit, Amphibious, Wheeled
Civ: League of Corinth, Lacedaemonia, Ionia
Resources: Copper, Tin
Information: The citizen hoplite was the first truly successful infantry unit of the ancient age. It was feared all across the Western world in battles until the rise of Macedonia and the rule of Philip, when the Phalangite showed itself more worthy. Although it is a potentially devastatingunit, capable of knocking down any offensive attack, the hoplite has many requirements and cannot enter mountains. This is because of the extremely bulky armor worn by the unit; armor that needed large stores of bronze to create. Regardless of these pitfalls, the hoplite is relatively cheap in comparison to other units.
***I welcome any criticism of this unit's stats. I gave it a low attack to simulate its purpose on the battlefield, anda high defense to serve its purpose. I will not, however, sway on the 'wheeled' ability (ability?
) or its resource requirements. Up Next: Mardian Archer (tonight, hopefully
)EDIT: Stats changed to 6/10/1. Kryten was right; I forgot about the Mercs, which should be weaker than this unit but not too weak.
EDIT 2: Unit now called "Citizen Hoplite". It is available to all the Greek civs.
Kryten
Smeee heeeeed
Gororath, if by images you mean 'pictures', then no (partly becuase this thread has more than enough to keep us going for a while, and partly cos I can't find any!).
But if you mean units, then I'm afraid that you'll have to wait untill it's their turn for the unit of the day.
To Exsanguination,
Surprisingly enough, I agree with all your stats for the Athenian Hoplite.
(Well, almost. I would have prefered 6-10-1)
This is because I always think that there are basically three types of Hoplite: first there are Elite Spartans & the Theban Sacred Band, then there's the average Mercenary and Lacadaemonian "Periocoi" Hoplites, and lastly the poor quality Citizen or Persian subject Ionian Hoplites (who were only part-time soldiers or very unenthusiastic).
So your stats fit the fact that the Athenians concentrated more on their navy than they did their army.
Later Edit:
Exsanguination, have you considered using the Civ3 Longbowman as a "Mardian Archer"? Once the legs have been changed to flesh coloured and the feather on his hat removed I think he would look ok. Just a thought.
But if you mean units, then I'm afraid that you'll have to wait untill it's their turn for the unit of the day.
To Exsanguination,
Surprisingly enough, I agree with all your stats for the Athenian Hoplite.
(Well, almost. I would have prefered 6-10-1)
This is because I always think that there are basically three types of Hoplite: first there are Elite Spartans & the Theban Sacred Band, then there's the average Mercenary and Lacadaemonian "Periocoi" Hoplites, and lastly the poor quality Citizen or Persian subject Ionian Hoplites (who were only part-time soldiers or very unenthusiastic).
So your stats fit the fact that the Athenians concentrated more on their navy than they did their army.
Later Edit:
Exsanguination, have you considered using the Civ3 Longbowman as a "Mardian Archer"? Once the legs have been changed to flesh coloured and the feather on his hat removed I think he would look ok. Just a thought.
Exsanguination
No longer here
The Mardian Archer
Courtesy of Firaxis
Stats (A/D/M B/R/R): 8/2/1 15/1/1
Unit Abilities: Foot Unit, Amphibious, Lethal Land Bombardment
Civ: Persia
Resources: Mardia
Information: Very little is known about this unit except that it came from the Mardian region of Persia and was the ancient version of the later English Longbowman. It was extremely lethal, but if caught off guard it could be picked off easily.
***Kryten - notice, yes, I did use the Longbowman. Note that I am NOT editing it or anything, we're just going to use this baby as-is. The differences are trivial, and I'd like to have some good animated units for civ other than Persia. Also, notice that its resource is Mardia. I don't think I asked you for that one - can you make it (no hurry, you've got time!)? You can just make the resource pic itself, I can incorporate into the resources.pcx myself if that makes things easier.
Special Note/Clarification: The 'Lethal Bombardment' ability may seem extremely overpowering, but its not. Think about it - this unit has an RoF of only 1, meaning it can only kill a unit that has only 1 HP left. And if you think this unit is awesome, wait until you see the Indian Bamboo Archer :flamedevi.
Up Next: Thessalian Cavalry
Courtesy of Firaxis
Stats (A/D/M B/R/R): 8/2/1 15/1/1
Unit Abilities: Foot Unit, Amphibious, Lethal Land Bombardment
Civ: Persia
Resources: Mardia
Information: Very little is known about this unit except that it came from the Mardian region of Persia and was the ancient version of the later English Longbowman. It was extremely lethal, but if caught off guard it could be picked off easily.
***Kryten - notice, yes, I did use the Longbowman. Note that I am NOT editing it or anything, we're just going to use this baby as-is. The differences are trivial, and I'd like to have some good animated units for civ other than Persia
. Also, notice that its resource is Mardia. I don't think I asked you for that one - can you make it (no hurry, you've got time!)? You can just make the resource pic itself, I can incorporate into the resources.pcx myself if that makes things easier.Special Note/Clarification: The 'Lethal Bombardment' ability may seem extremely overpowering, but its not. Think about it - this unit has an RoF of only 1, meaning it can only kill a unit that has only 1 HP left. And if you think this unit is awesome, wait until you see the Indian Bamboo Archer :flamedevi.
Up Next: Thessalian Cavalry
As for the Scythians I suggest you to make at least 2 different UUs. First is a horsearcher of course, and the other one is a foot soldier with a buckler shield and a spear +/or cuirass. Those were the main soldier types of the Scythian army.
A Scythian warriors equipment:
http://www.rom.on.ca/gold/section3.html
A Scythian warriors equipment:
http://www.rom.on.ca/gold/section3.html
The Strategos
Thanatos
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Messages
- 1,175
ROUGH DRAFT OF CIVLOPEDIA ENTRIES
This is the rough draft of the civlopedia entries I have completed so far. Comments, critizisms, and snide remarks are all welcomed. Unfortunately I don't have Civ III so I just put in what I personally felt should be in the entries in.
Done so far...
phalangite
hypaspistai
Agrianian
Peltast
Companion Cavalry
I have put Agema and Basilike in with the hypaspistai and Companion Cavalry respectively though if you want I could make seperate entries for them. I just assumed that since they were almost exactly the same I would just put them in the same entry.
Edit: for some reason I can't attach the .txt so I'll just post it below
The phalangite was the main heavy infantry force of the Macedonian army. The traditional phalangite was armed with a sarissa (pike) which was between 15-19 feet long and a shield strapped to their forearm. Phalangite were recruited according to a territorial system based on a military requirement for each province of Macedonia. To reduce the threat of rebellion in Macedonia, during Alexander's Asiatic campaign, most of the phalangite were drawn from the more traditionally rebellious northern provinces. At the beginning of Alexander's campaign he had six regiments of 1500 men each with a seventh regiment added later from reinforcements.
The hypaspistai were an elite formation of phalangite. Instead of being recruited on a territorial basis, these men were selected from the phalangite on the basis of merit. The hypaspistai consisted of 3000 men organized into three subgroups of 1000 each. Since the unit did not depend on replacements from a particular territory like normal phalangites, it is likely that the hypaspistai retained there original number throughout the campaigns of Alexander. The hypaspistai were often used for special assignments and in battle were placed at the most dangerous place, usually on the right flank of the infantry. The most elite unit of the hypaspistai was the 1000 man strong Agema.
The Agrianian were javelin armed men from the kingdom of Lagarus. These men fought for the Macedonians in units of 500. These elite light infantry units were frequently used by Alexander on dangerous missions that relied on speed and stealth. While they were used primarly as skirmishers, they were used effectively in the battle of Gaugamela as shock troops opposite Persian chariots.
The Peltast were a 7000 strong contingent from Thracia. They were armed with a javelin and a small cresent-shaped shield called a Pelta, from which he gained his name. Various reports state that these men were used by Alexander not so much for their military value but as hostages to insure the good behavior of Thracia. It should be noted however that the Peltast were used in a variety of light infantry roles by Alexander.
The Companion Cavalry were the heavy calvary of the Macedonian army. 3000 men strong they were subdivided into groups of 200 except for the elite basilike which had around 500 men. At first drawn exclusively from Macedonian nobility, by the time of Alexander, they had expanded to include other Macedonians as well as some foreigners. The companion cavalry were armed with long spears and swords. Shields were only used if the cavalry was used as dismounted soldiers. The companion cavalry was commanded by Alexander himself, and usually played a decisive role in the engagements he fought.
This is the rough draft of the civlopedia entries I have completed so far. Comments, critizisms, and snide remarks are all welcomed. Unfortunately I don't have Civ III so I just put in what I personally felt should be in the entries in.
Done so far...
phalangite
hypaspistai
Agrianian
Peltast
Companion Cavalry
I have put Agema and Basilike in with the hypaspistai and Companion Cavalry respectively though if you want I could make seperate entries for them. I just assumed that since they were almost exactly the same I would just put them in the same entry.
Edit: for some reason I can't attach the .txt so I'll just post it below
The phalangite was the main heavy infantry force of the Macedonian army. The traditional phalangite was armed with a sarissa (pike) which was between 15-19 feet long and a shield strapped to their forearm. Phalangite were recruited according to a territorial system based on a military requirement for each province of Macedonia. To reduce the threat of rebellion in Macedonia, during Alexander's Asiatic campaign, most of the phalangite were drawn from the more traditionally rebellious northern provinces. At the beginning of Alexander's campaign he had six regiments of 1500 men each with a seventh regiment added later from reinforcements.
The hypaspistai were an elite formation of phalangite. Instead of being recruited on a territorial basis, these men were selected from the phalangite on the basis of merit. The hypaspistai consisted of 3000 men organized into three subgroups of 1000 each. Since the unit did not depend on replacements from a particular territory like normal phalangites, it is likely that the hypaspistai retained there original number throughout the campaigns of Alexander. The hypaspistai were often used for special assignments and in battle were placed at the most dangerous place, usually on the right flank of the infantry. The most elite unit of the hypaspistai was the 1000 man strong Agema.
The Agrianian were javelin armed men from the kingdom of Lagarus. These men fought for the Macedonians in units of 500. These elite light infantry units were frequently used by Alexander on dangerous missions that relied on speed and stealth. While they were used primarly as skirmishers, they were used effectively in the battle of Gaugamela as shock troops opposite Persian chariots.
The Peltast were a 7000 strong contingent from Thracia. They were armed with a javelin and a small cresent-shaped shield called a Pelta, from which he gained his name. Various reports state that these men were used by Alexander not so much for their military value but as hostages to insure the good behavior of Thracia. It should be noted however that the Peltast were used in a variety of light infantry roles by Alexander.
The Companion Cavalry were the heavy calvary of the Macedonian army. 3000 men strong they were subdivided into groups of 200 except for the elite basilike which had around 500 men. At first drawn exclusively from Macedonian nobility, by the time of Alexander, they had expanded to include other Macedonians as well as some foreigners. The companion cavalry were armed with long spears and swords. Shields were only used if the cavalry was used as dismounted soldiers. The companion cavalry was commanded by Alexander himself, and usually played a decisive role in the engagements he fought.
Originally posted by Civanator
woa!that looks like a Japanese samurai armor!
Heheh well not really.
However I can see some Asian aspects in the armor thats true. The leather armor covered with iron plates + cuirass is a special 'nomadic warrior' style.
Exsanguination
No longer here
Real quick - I wanted to do a comparison of all the current cavalry types (model shapes/sizes) so I whipped up this preview pic.
Left to Right the units are:
-Bactrian
-Prodromoi
-Thessalian
-Royal Kinsman
-Thracian Heavy
-Horse Archer
-defult civ3 Mounted Warrior (for comparison only)
-was the Thracian Heavy, but I switched it around. This model can be used for any other cavalry if needed.
Gorgoroth: the Scythian Hillman will be quite weak, but it will also be the cheapest unit in the scenario.
IMPORTANT 'ANNOUNCEMENT'
There have been several questions asked (not only by me) that have gone unanswered or undiscussed. Particular on my mind is the query I made about whether or not to make generic units buildable to all civs (read post) and in the first post about alternate names for certain units. If progress is to be made, we MUST discuss these issues! This thread is not just for pictures and numbers, the idea is to get EVERYONE (including lurkers) to give their input. Don't take this as an attack on any one poster or group of posters, instead I intend this to be a reminder about the importance of these discussions. I don't know everything! (although I wish I did!)
Also, check the first post soon, I'll be updating the Unit List with links and new units.
I'm in quite a rush trying to get a bunch of these unit graphics going, as well as trying to start working on the resource/city layout for the map. Forgive me for any lack of updates.
--Ex
Left to Right the units are:
-Bactrian
-Prodromoi
-Thessalian
-Royal Kinsman
-Thracian Heavy
-Horse Archer
-defult civ3 Mounted Warrior (for comparison only)
-was the Thracian Heavy, but I switched it around. This model can be used for any other cavalry if needed.
Gorgoroth: the Scythian Hillman will be quite weak, but it will also be the cheapest unit in the scenario.
IMPORTANT 'ANNOUNCEMENT'
There have been several questions asked (not only by me) that have gone unanswered or undiscussed. Particular on my mind is the query I made about whether or not to make generic units buildable to all civs (read post) and in the first post about alternate names for certain units. If progress is to be made, we MUST discuss these issues! This thread is not just for pictures and numbers, the idea is to get EVERYONE (including lurkers) to give their input. Don't take this as an attack on any one poster or group of posters, instead I intend this to be a reminder about the importance of these discussions. I don't know everything! (although I wish I did!
)Also, check the first post soon, I'll be updating the Unit List with links and new units.
I'm in quite a rush trying to get a bunch of these unit graphics going, as well as trying to start working on the resource/city layout for the map. Forgive me for any lack of updates.
--Ex
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