All Units seen in the Open Dev (So far)

Anyone else find it funny that a bunch of peasants with farming tools are about as strong as heavily armored hoplites?
To be fair, hoplites are just Greek peasants in armor. :mischief:

And they have insinuated than Battles will rewards us with something useful, maybe this morale is this rewarding currency ?
It might tie into some additional mechanics of the Militarists (like Scientists can research ahead). Then there's also the Roman EQ or legacy trait which name dropped a "Victorious City" (possibly a status effect like those from the events).
As far as flying is concerned, we've only seen that biplane flying over the sea in the Industrial Era.
 
A last thing we can share to poeple which don't get the opendev. A little look on the Avatar outfits.
We don't know how it will work, but we know than there is some "swap color", there is maybe a sort of alternative outfit choice per culture (2 or 3) ? So it explains the similar assets on some cultures. Don't be too mad about it, it's really too soon. ^^

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We didn't see a lot of things, like naval combats and ... aerial combat

"From the AMA on r/civ the other day, one of the questions was about aerial battles but mentioned naval:

There will be aerial combat, and it is really cool. more to come later on modern eras. Aerial combat will be very different from land combat while sea and land combat share a lot of common rules. it is more a question of unit abilities that will change how sea combat works"

My bet is that they will work as "support units", the tab that hasn't been used yet. So maybe airplanes are stationed in a region and can participate in any combat in X region range. No idea if they will have a role outside of combat like city bombardments.
 
It just means that army cant decline battle. So yeah it seems to be just a disadvantage perhaps the Samurai has better stats to make up for it?
Trust me, those 5 points of strength difference are huge. And due to the higher strength, they are about as good at fighting cavalry as the Halberdiers they replace.

Keep in mind that some of these may have been adjusted for the purpose of these scenarios.

Did anyone else notice the chariots in the 1st scenario don't look like their artwork? The horses are basically naked in game but in their artwork they have all this flashy decoration and the hittite one even has some armour.
Yes, the Egyptian and Hittite Chariots are not entirely finished.

The peasants description leaves me wondering, though... it seems to imply that they sponteanously form to defend a city when it's attacked... does that mean you don't have to spend production on them ?
Yes, they are probably the free city guards, like in EL. I wonder whether the militaristic affinity militia are the same units.
Yes, all types of "Militia" units like peasants will spawn automatically when a city is attacked. By themselves they probably won't repel a proper invasion force, but they probably will stop stray units from conquering cities.

A last thing we can share to poeple which don't get the opendev. A little look on the Avatar outfits.
We don't know how it will work, but we know than there is some "swap color", there is maybe a sort of alternative outfit choice per culture (2 or 3) ? So it explains the similar assets on some cultures. Don't be too mad about it, it's really too soon. ^^
There will be some shared meshes between outfits, but I think even the different materials can make a big difference.
 
Keep in mind that some of these may have been adjusted for the purpose of these scenarios...

Yes, like the two siege engines for Norsemen for exemple :p But I really hope than you will reconsider the +2 Strengh for Naval Units for Norse. It's look like a common cliché about Norse naval engineering.
Indeed, they were innovative in naval architecture, so the movement bonus make sense. (for high sea travel, Vinland, exploration, norse colony, raiding, etc ...)
But in term of naval warfare, their light embarcations can't deal with heavy warships with a lot of soldiers and siege engines.

An exemple https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/81vcko/how_effective_were_the_vikings_with_their/
Generic compilation of medieval ships : https://www.naval-encyclopedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/poster-medieval-ships.jpg

A common counter to viking raiding was to take down their ships on the sea.
To be honest, medieval poeple doesn't really care about naval warfare, it take a lot of times before some ambitious poeple tried to outclassed Byzantine and Venetian navy (which don't have too much evoluted in medieval era since classical era, but have some good siege engines on board.)

I understand than for the "gameplay consitancy" it's cool to have one culture with a legacy trait about "naval unit strengh", but Norse don't really deserve it. There is maybe a better challenger in medieval era (maybe in another geographical zone than europe) or in early modern.


And the additional siege engines are really fun, I suppose it will be removed outside the openDev, but I would really like to see a culture with this bonus !


For curious poeple : there is almost no trace about naval warfare involving vikings ships VERSUS non-norse people.
There is some battles versus English, and they were not really efficient or way better than English, and the rest of these battles were norse-only.
 
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To be honest, medieval poeple doesn't really care about naval warfare, it take a lot of times before some ambitious poeple tried to outclassed Byzantine and Venetian navy (which don't have too much evoluted in medieval era since classical era, but have some good siege engines on board.)
Honestly, I don't think Naval Warfare plays a big role in the Medieval era of Humankind, either. If I recall correctly, there's a grand total of three ship types in medieval, and one of those is the Langskip. And the Langskip is a transport ship, so even with the bonus, it won't really stand up to the actual warship.

And the additional siege engines are really fun, I suppose it will be removed outside the openDev, but I would really like to see a culture with this bonus !
Wait and see. :)
 
Honestly, I don't think Naval Warfare plays a big role in the Medieval era of Humankind, either. If I recall correctly, there's a grand total of three ship types in medieval, and one of those is the Langskip. And the Langskip is a transport ship, so even with the bonus, it won't really stand up to the actual warship.

I hope we could have a DLC with a South East Asian culture (Srivijaya or Majapahit) having a naval warfare bonus in the future. Just a suggestion ;)
 
To be fair, hoplites are just Greek peasants in armor. :mischief: .

Not exactly. In the Classic Greek city states, the Hoplites were required to provide their own weapons and armor, so a Hoplite pretty much had to come from the landowning class: the equivalent, at least, of later Eras' 'Upper Middle Class' and definitely not peasants.

One impulse for the rise of Athenian democracy was that Athens started basing its military force on its powerful fleet of trieres warships, and an oarsman on one of the ships didn't have to provide any armor or weapons to serve. That meant that the old equation that those who defend the state have a say in running it got extended to an enormous number of men who were 'lower class' than the Upper Middle Class Hoplites, vastly extending the voting group in Athens until it did include those who, by any economic standards, were 'peasants'.
 
Not exactly. In the Classic Greek city states, the Hoplites were required to provide their own weapons and armor, so a Hoplite pretty much had to come from the landowning class: the equivalent, at least, of later Eras' 'Upper Middle Class' and definitely not peasants.
I wanted to stress that both were fully civilian troops. Neither really had any endurance training, nor fighting drills to learn how to fight in formation, how to handle their weapon, etc.
Likewise, the medieval city would be a place of a decent amount of middle class people who did have their own armor and weapons, helping during defense of the town (when it's under siege) or keeping the order (various guard duties). For the purpose of the game, it's these who stand up and defend the city. Though yes, the term peasant does seem to be tied to living in the countryside so "civilians" would have been a better wording on my part. :)
 
I wanted to stress that both were fully civilian troops. Neither really had any endurance training, nor fighting drills to learn how to fight in formation, how to handle their weapon, etc.
Likewise, the medieval city would be a place of a decent amount of middle class people who did have their own armor and weapons, helping during defense of the town (when it's under siege) or keeping the order (various guard duties). For the purpose of the game, it's these who stand up and defend the city. Though yes, the term peasant does seem to be tied to living in the countryside so "civilians" would have been a better wording on my part. :)

I had to look up the precise definition of 'peasant' myself to be sure the 'accepted' definition was accurate.
One more thing about the Hoplite, though. Although technically they are indeed, 'militia', it was your Civic Duty as a Hoplite to train yourself in the use of the Hoplon shield and Xyton spear, because the shield protected the man on your left as well as yourself and being inept with it was letting down your neighbor and fellow-tribesman. There were even gymnasiae (exercise yards/halls) that specialized in weapons training for the Gentlemen Farmers (land owners) that made up the 'Hoplite' class.
You are absolutely right, though, that the defining nature of Militia - lack of unit training - characterized all the Hoplites, with the notable exception of the Spartans, who were full-time warriors and did perform and practice Unit Drill.

Other 'reasonably good with their weapons' Militia would include the horse-archer nomads, since every adult and teen-age male in those societies rode and practiced mounted archery (since that was how they protected their flocks and herds from animal predators) from childhood, and the various 'peasant militia' of early Medieval Europe, like the Saxon Fyrd or the Carolingian Miles. Those relied on a system where X number of families had to provide a man when called for by the king, and that man armed appropriately. The Fyrd candidate, for instance, had to have a metal-tipped spear and shield of wood or cow leather (sheep leather was too thin to protect against arrows) as a minimum, and enough food to keep him with the army for at least 3 months. He was expected to know how to use the spear, but I have not seen any source that says how this was measured or any kind of formal training.
By the High Middle Ages (+1250 CE, approximately) virtually every city in Europe had some kind of City Guard or Watch, again composed originally of 'volunteers' from the merchant class and their apprentices. Some of these, at least, did Unit Drill as well as individual weapons training, and so could be, in the right circumstances, very effective. Prime example is the Battle of Courtrai in 1302 CE between militia from Flanders' cities and French knights. The cities being very rich from the cloth trade, the militia wore link mail armor and had trained as pikemen. When the knights tried charing through a marsh to get at the pikemen, they got themselves bogged down and were massacred. The battle is sometimes called "Battle of the Golden Spurs" because afterwards the militia hung up 700 pairs of spurs in the cathedral, spoils from knights who were too dead to need them any more.
This City Militia didn't last long as a prime combat force, though: by the late 15th century the cities were discovering that it was more cost-effective to keep your apprentices and merchants working and paying taxes and hire professional mercenaries to do the fighting - men who made a living at fighting and so were much better at it, and better trained for it.

I have long thought that the proper division of Units was not only by weapons type, but primarily between those who were 'part-time soldiers' (militia) and Professionals. That Humankind appears to be implementing just such a distinction, even if only for certain specific Unit Types, is very encouraging.
 
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I would be interested in to learn something about all the buildings that are now available in scenario 3. The tech tree up to the medieval era is there, right?
 
Peasants in medieval scandinavia would had some sort of military training, maybe comparable to conscripts in modern sense and was expected to defend the area they lived in. In terms of equipment, minimum was something like a spear, shield and a bow/crossbow, but stuff like chainmail was used for example by the milita in gotland when it was sacked in mid 1300s.
 
I would be interested in to learn something about all the buildings that are now available in scenario 3. The tech tree up to the medieval era is there, right?

Not really, only a few medieval techs related to combat. We had some extra that were missing from ancient and classical, though.
 
You can take the Khmer or Aztec city with their emblematic quarter, but it's hard to know what the quarter buff exactly. (the Khmer give some food apparently, hard to say how much with all modificators)
Bonus, all the English stuffs :
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I probably don't need to specifically say it in this forum, but it doesn't hurt to mention it anyway: Keep in mind that the cost of these units and resource requirements will differ.
I've seen a few reactions of "Why would I ever use the Jaguar Warriors? The Greatswordsmen are just straight-up stronger." and a lot of feedback regarding the power of the Khmer elephant but in the scenario you don't get to see that Jaguar Warriors cost only about half as much as a Great Swordsmen (on par with Pikemen and Crossbowmen) and don't require any iron, and the elephants cost roughly four times as much as Pikemen and Crossbowmen.

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i think i just discover hyppocampus
I have no idea what is causing this, but sometimes the resources markers bug out completely. It may be connected to the map editor in some way, as I have often experienced it after messing with it.
 
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