Id take the city without a doubt..
Almost ain't is: a vital resource just out of reach
- Thread starter 1940LaSalle
- Start date
Id take the city without a doubt..
1940LaSalle
Warlord
"This is a thing we can't ignore"--Zeppo Marx in "Duck Soup"
Looks like we're going to war. Gotta move some units around but we'll get there. Yeah, I was kind of looking for a sneaky way to finesse my way to rubber without going to war but I don't think that's going to happen.
Thanks, everyone.
Looks like we're going to war. Gotta move some units around but we'll get there. Yeah, I was kind of looking for a sneaky way to finesse my way to rubber without going to war but I don't think that's going to happen.
Thanks, everyone.
1940LaSalle
Warlord
Not quite sure I understand what you want: you want a save of the game itself? If so, hang in there; I'm not where I can do so at the moment.
If Tientsin had minimal culture, you could build a city where the cavalry sits, rush culture until it expanded to the tile 1 E of the rubber (this requires that it has more culture than Tientsin, not just that it has 10 culture), build a city 1 E of the rubber, and rush culture until it stole the tile from Tientsin (again requiring more culture than Tientsin). However, Tientsin appears to have a lot of culture (not all the cultural borders are set by cities visible in the picture, so it is hard to say for sure how much Tientsin has). The only way to get this source is to remove Tientsin. You'll want to raze it because it is going to be hugely likely to flip.
1940LaSalle
Warlord
OK, here you go: this is the save of the same game from which the screenshot was taken. Have at it, but please be a bit gentle: I'm not particularly experienced with the game (can you tell?), and I know there are many facets I haven't explored, never mind grasped.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
I've taken a brief look at your save.
You have a lot of cities! That is good.
Let's look at Konigsberg, which at size 12 is a good city to show how a science farm works.
Konigsberg As Is
Konigsberg is at size 12 (good) and highly corrupt, netting only one shield per turn. It produces four shields, but three are lost to corruption. It is now at 75% corruption and probably won't get any better. Buildig a settler here, at one shield per turn, is a good idea.
The twelve citizens of Kongisberg are divided into four groups. Five are Happy, one is Content, three are Unhappy and you have one geek, one taxman and one clown. The city cannot grow any larger and has four extra food it cannot use. The city produces 2 coins and 6 beekers. The two coins comes from the taxman and three of the six beekers come from the lone geek.
OK, so what?
In a science farm, the goal is to have cities produce a lot of food so that each city can use their surplus food to hire scientists.
Let me show you how it could work here.
Konigsberg Step 1
Here I just made all the specialists into geeks. This changes the Happy/Unhappy balance, but not greatly. Five Happy still outnumber the four Unhappy and the city does not riot. What does change even more is what the city produces.
Before, it make only 6 beakers. Now it makes 12. It does not make any coins but that is a small lose. Two coins for 6 beakers? Take the beakers almost every time.
Konigsberg Step 2
Here I hired three more geeks and the city is no longer wasting food. Still 5 Happy citizens but only 1 Unhappy, with 6 geeks.
And the beakers have gone from 12 to 19.
Which means.....
By hiring some geeks, the science output of this city went from 6 beakers per turn to 19. Now, imagine doing the same thing in all of your highly corrupt cities. They won't all be as neat and tidy as Konigsberg, but that is okay. With enough of these science farm cities, you can drop your research rate percentage and still learn new techs just as fast.
Here's the rub. With a science farm, you don't really need a library. The bonus from a library depends on the science rate. Right now, at 70% science, it appears to net 1 beaker per turn, based on the commerce of the city. More commerce and the higher the science slider, the more beakers the city can produce. In contrast, geeks will always produce 3 beakers per turn, regardless of the science slider.
If we were to drop science from 70% to 0%, how many beakers would Konigsberg produce? In the Before state, probably just three, all from the lone geek. After Step 2, at 0% science, it would produce 18 beakers, all from geeks.
Which is a rather long way to say that in your science farm cities, don't build anything, except maybe an aqueduct and only if you have a lot of grassland around.
You have a lot of cities! That is good.
Let's look at Konigsberg, which at size 12 is a good city to show how a science farm works.
Konigsberg As Is
Spoiler :
Konigsberg is at size 12 (good) and highly corrupt, netting only one shield per turn. It produces four shields, but three are lost to corruption. It is now at 75% corruption and probably won't get any better. Buildig a settler here, at one shield per turn, is a good idea.
The twelve citizens of Kongisberg are divided into four groups. Five are Happy, one is Content, three are Unhappy and you have one geek, one taxman and one clown. The city cannot grow any larger and has four extra food it cannot use. The city produces 2 coins and 6 beekers. The two coins comes from the taxman and three of the six beekers come from the lone geek.
OK, so what?
In a science farm, the goal is to have cities produce a lot of food so that each city can use their surplus food to hire scientists.
Let me show you how it could work here.
Konigsberg Step 1
Spoiler :
Here I just made all the specialists into geeks. This changes the Happy/Unhappy balance, but not greatly. Five Happy still outnumber the four Unhappy and the city does not riot. What does change even more is what the city produces.
Before, it make only 6 beakers. Now it makes 12. It does not make any coins but that is a small lose. Two coins for 6 beakers? Take the beakers almost every time.
Konigsberg Step 2
Spoiler :
Here I hired three more geeks and the city is no longer wasting food. Still 5 Happy citizens but only 1 Unhappy, with 6 geeks.
And the beakers have gone from 12 to 19.
Which means.....
By hiring some geeks, the science output of this city went from 6 beakers per turn to 19. Now, imagine doing the same thing in all of your highly corrupt cities. They won't all be as neat and tidy as Konigsberg, but that is okay. With enough of these science farm cities, you can drop your research rate percentage and still learn new techs just as fast.
Here's the rub. With a science farm, you don't really need a library. The bonus from a library depends on the science rate. Right now, at 70% science, it appears to net 1 beaker per turn, based on the commerce of the city. More commerce and the higher the science slider, the more beakers the city can produce. In contrast, geeks will always produce 3 beakers per turn, regardless of the science slider.
If we were to drop science from 70% to 0%, how many beakers would Konigsberg produce? In the Before state, probably just three, all from the lone geek. After Step 2, at 0% science, it would produce 18 beakers, all from geeks.
Which is a rather long way to say that in your science farm cities, don't build anything, except maybe an aqueduct and only if you have a lot of grassland around.
My advice comes as to train more workers. You want every tile in your core railroaded. Tienstein has a 3/3 pike on top. I feel confident you can handle a Cheiftain war against a tribe which barely has Nationalism when you have only 4 turns left on Motorized Transportation. Don't worry about war weariness, at all. VMXA has a regent level tutorial you might want to check out in his signature file.
I post a new question in this thread instead of creating a new in the same topic:
I'm playing as Russian on monarch in a huge world with continents. 5 other civs.
I share a continent with the mongols(polite, outnumbering me, scientificially equal) and I just discovered steampower 1400 AD, but the only source of coal in the other end of the continent between two mongol cities. I am really not ready for war yet, but really want railroads.
Shall I go for sending a boat with settler, worker and two cossacks, buy a harbor and then rush culture?
I'm playing as Russian on monarch in a huge world with continents. 5 other civs.
I share a continent with the mongols(polite, outnumbering me, scientificially equal) and I just discovered steampower 1400 AD, but the only source of coal in the other end of the continent between two mongol cities. I am really not ready for war yet, but really want railroads.
Shall I go for sending a boat with settler, worker and two cossacks, buy a harbor and then rush culture?
I would actually suggest that you start your own thread and post a save. That's really the best way to get good advice around here. As far as the coal, I'm not a big fan of sending a settler and rushing culture. If they only have one source, I don't think they'll trade it to you. You said the Mongols outnumber you. By how much? What's your VC? Do you have enough Cossacks to take down the Mongols a peg or two? Or at least to blaze a trial to the coal? How far are the Mongols from discovering Steam?
ThePrankMonkey
mowing em' down!
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2002
- Messages
- 702
i always try to corner the rubber market by taking over all cities that have it within their radius. i dont care how mad they get. unless it's in the territory of a civ i like in that game. then i leave it alone.
i rush in, take what cities i need and then sit in them and make them try to take them back. that way i'm defending and war weariness isnt such an issue.
i rush in, take what cities i need and then sit in them and make them try to take them back. that way i'm defending and war weariness isnt such an issue.
Fiddlin Nero
Prince
Where's your core? All I see is three cities. The strategic situation may not allow you to hold the tile if you go to war for it. You could do a save and see what happens when you disband and build a city closer to the rubber, my bet is it would come inside China's borders and building a city would be a DOW.
It is possible to take that tile just like Tientsin is taking your northen city's close in tile, but the culture builds take a while and will probably come down to who's palace is closer.
You may be ahead technically but if the strategic advantage is with China, what will it take to conquer and hold indefinitely Tientsin?
It is possible to take that tile just like Tientsin is taking your northen city's close in tile, but the culture builds take a while and will probably come down to who's palace is closer.
You may be ahead technically but if the strategic advantage is with China, what will it take to conquer and hold indefinitely Tientsin?
