ElCommandante
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 19, 2006
- Messages
- 46
Being that Kylorin was directly instructed by Nantosuelta, might it not make sense for the Amurites to get Enchantment mana instead of Body mana from their palace?
Amurite Palace Mana
- Thread starter ElCommandante
- Start date
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Of course, Kyorlin was taught directly by Ceridwen first, so why not dimensional mana?
Honestly, I think the body mana is just a place holder for Metamagic (which I don't think will be added ye, even in Shadow), since The Amurite Patron Angel is Oghama. Placeholder mana doesn't usually make a lot of sense.
One reason why body is better for the Amurites is because it allows Govannon to get body 1, and then teach it to every living, non-disciple unit you own. Govannon doesn't have the ability to train enchantment (although I really don't see why not. The spheres he can train never really made sense to me. His Civilopedia seems to make it clear that he should be able to train body, spirit, and especially enchantment . I'm not sure why he is implemented instead as training death, chaos, or dimensional (although body makes sense). I would rather him be able to train any sphere, but (so it won't be overpowered) require at least the second or third level sphere spell in order to know enough to teach level 1. In fact, I already changed it to work that way.
Alternately, it might be appropriate for Govannon to teach spells randomly to units around him; the civilopedia makes it clear that the rest of Amurite society, especially the Magical Aristocracy, don't control or even approve of him teaching. It would make sense for them/the player to have no say in what/whom he teaches. This could be a random ability tied to the new PythonPerTurn tag (assuming units have this tag, and not just promotions. Of course, if it is only for promotions then they could just bring the Trainer promotion back))
Personally I think it might be nice for the Amurite palace to grant more than 3 mana types, but that would require changes to the setup of the xml. Also, it might make the Cave of the Ancestors overpowered.
(Personally I think it would be better for any Amurite unit, not just adepts, to have a decent chance of gaining channeling 1 and a sphere spell (of a type of mana you control), with a much smaller change of also getting channeling 2 and sorcery. I would rather see the Cave grant these chances based on how much mana you have, rather than getting free xp.)
Honestly, I think the body mana is just a place holder for Metamagic (which I don't think will be added ye, even in Shadow), since The Amurite Patron Angel is Oghama. Placeholder mana doesn't usually make a lot of sense.
One reason why body is better for the Amurites is because it allows Govannon to get body 1, and then teach it to every living, non-disciple unit you own. Govannon doesn't have the ability to train enchantment (although I really don't see why not. The spheres he can train never really made sense to me. His Civilopedia seems to make it clear that he should be able to train body, spirit, and especially enchantment . I'm not sure why he is implemented instead as training death, chaos, or dimensional (although body makes sense). I would rather him be able to train any sphere, but (so it won't be overpowered) require at least the second or third level sphere spell in order to know enough to teach level 1. In fact, I already changed it to work that way.
Alternately, it might be appropriate for Govannon to teach spells randomly to units around him; the civilopedia makes it clear that the rest of Amurite society, especially the Magical Aristocracy, don't control or even approve of him teaching. It would make sense for them/the player to have no say in what/whom he teaches. This could be a random ability tied to the new PythonPerTurn tag (assuming units have this tag, and not just promotions. Of course, if it is only for promotions then they could just bring the Trainer promotion back))Personally I think it might be nice for the Amurite palace to grant more than 3 mana types, but that would require changes to the setup of the xml. Also, it might make the Cave of the Ancestors overpowered.
(Personally I think it would be better for any Amurite unit, not just adepts, to have a decent chance of gaining channeling 1 and a sphere spell (of a type of mana you control), with a much smaller change of also getting channeling 2 and sorcery. I would rather see the Cave grant these chances based on how much mana you have, rather than getting free xp.)
Jono
Emperor
- Joined
- May 19, 2004
- Messages
- 1,521
Still seems kind of overpowered, I'd make it so that it required at least 2 of that sphere's mana to train.
govannon is no heros, he gains xp only through battle and automatic xp.. I currently have trouble getting him the 4 spells sphere to teach + being good in fire... + mobility as he needs to move a lot (due to the need to teach a lot)
so if you change his ability so it need to be lvl 2-3 before being able to teach AND you want at least 1 at lvl3 to make use of the channeling 3 ability + want mobility (or combat1 or spell extension 1)
-need lvl 2 :
_1 teached school is 4 levels (17xp)
_2 is 6 (37xp)
_3 is 8 (65xp)
_4 is 10 (101xp)
need lvl 3
_1 teached school is 4 levels (17xp)
_2 is 7 (50xp)
_3 is 10 (101xp)
in the current game, giving him : body1, fire3, chaos1, death1, dimensional1 mobility1 (5schools, can teach 4) is 8 lvls.
then, I think needing a lvl2 on any mana to teach it is suffisant to limit govanon strengh while still leaving him an archmage worth something + being able to teach every sphere. (so much xp is a lot of farming, + being very very cautious with the unit... it is a hero, not a standard unit, you don't want to lose him)
(or maybe asking him to have some X-Y-Z promo before being able to teach.. thus asking more xp from him before starting using him)
But the idea is nice
so if you change his ability so it need to be lvl 2-3 before being able to teach AND you want at least 1 at lvl3 to make use of the channeling 3 ability + want mobility (or combat1 or spell extension 1)
-need lvl 2 :
_1 teached school is 4 levels (17xp)
_2 is 6 (37xp)
_3 is 8 (65xp)
_4 is 10 (101xp)
need lvl 3
_1 teached school is 4 levels (17xp)
_2 is 7 (50xp)
_3 is 10 (101xp)
in the current game, giving him : body1, fire3, chaos1, death1, dimensional1 mobility1 (5schools, can teach 4) is 8 lvls.
then, I think needing a lvl2 on any mana to teach it is suffisant to limit govanon strengh while still leaving him an archmage worth something + being able to teach every sphere. (so much xp is a lot of farming, + being very very cautious with the unit... it is a hero, not a standard unit, you don't want to lose him)
(or maybe asking him to have some X-Y-Z promo before being able to teach.. thus asking more xp from him before starting using him)
But the idea is nice
Caradoc
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,010
Great idea. A nation of magicians.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
No, it wouldn't. I didn't propose any means by which a unit could gain channeling 3, only channeling 1 and 2. My recommendations were also that the promotions be given randomly, so most of your units couldn't cast tier 2 spells and many of them couldn't even cast tier 1. Also, since I proposed getting rid of the free xp from the cave, tier 3 casters would actually be much harder to come by.
Of course, this would probbaly make the Wizard UU less important (since a warrior could potentially, albeit not often) be able to cast all the same spells. I would say that the UU needs a bigger boost then. (for example, you could make spellstaffs make your spells more effective, and be treated as equipment. You could also make Wizards start with Enchantment 3 so they could replace their spellstaffs). In general, this would change the Amurites from a nation with ordinary arcane units that they can more easily get to a nations whose arcane units are elite but still require plenty of expienace to gain their status.
Of course, this would probbaly make the Wizard UU less important (since a warrior could potentially, albeit not often) be able to cast all the same spells. I would say that the UU needs a bigger boost then. (for example, you could make spellstaffs make your spells more effective, and be treated as equipment. You could also make Wizards start with Enchantment 3 so they could replace their spellstaffs). In general, this would change the Amurites from a nation with ordinary arcane units that they can more easily get to a nations whose arcane units are elite but still require plenty of expienace to gain their status.
xienwolf
Deity
Can't grant Wizards Enchant III to replace their spellstaves, because they cannot cast a III rank spell. Unless you give them Channeling 3, but then you never need to upgrade to Archmage.
Would need a new spell, or a building which hands them out in order to be able to refresh.
Would need a new spell, or a building which hands them out in order to be able to refresh.
Jono
Emperor
- Joined
- May 19, 2004
- Messages
- 1,521
I meant to post this in the 'Amurites - a little plain?' thread.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
That isn't true. The Requirements to cast Spell staff are Enchantment3 and Sorcery. None of the third level spells require channeling 3 to cast (nor do any 2nd level spells require channeling2). Channeling 3 is only needed in order to get the third level promotion to begin with.
AFAIK I concure with MagisterCultuum
to launch a spell you only need the mana level and (sorcery/summon)
giving Enchant 3 to each wizard would be a solution !!
(some units already have sorcery + manaII without chaneling... can't remember which)
nice idea !! I will try it
to launch a spell you only need the mana level and (sorcery/summon)
giving Enchant 3 to each wizard would be a solution !!
(some units already have sorcery + manaII without chaneling... can't remember which)
nice idea !! I will try it
