An unbeatable army

[unknown_spirit]

In the Ancient times (i.e, before Gunpowder, where Barracks become obsolete) I tent to lean towards hordes of horseback units (Horsemen, Knights, Elephant, Crusader and such like). I'm also not stingy on the Catapults. I only build a couple of Legion, and they're primarily a defence or backup unit. Knights have thae same stats, and a better move rate.
In the middle times (Before, shall we say, Communism), I like to use stuff like Ironclads, the odd Rifleman, a load of Dragoons, Cavalry and heavy seige weapons (Cannons and Artillery)
In the modern age, I still have plenty of leftover units from the middle times (don't forget, Leo's becomes obsolete with Automobile!), so I disband them or send them to their deaths. I build lots of Armor, Howitzers, Battleships, Carriers, Nukes, Paras, MechInf. etc. I like a broad spectrum of units, as that way, I can build on a unit's strengths with lots of them and plenty of back-up, and also cover up any weaknesses. Any fool knows that artillery-style weapons are very weak on the defensive, so you need a Marine, Armor or MechInf to defend it as it blitzes an enemy city. Even the AI is smart enough to realise that an undefended seige weapon (Catapult upwards) is an easy target. Stick a nice tank in the way and it's safe from almost anything the AI will throw at you (see also thread: your favourite unit (don't know who posted it))
Any other ideas on a good military?

 

[starlifter]

I'm not much into ancient combat, but may slowly be changing my mind after watching some good early game warmongers.

Most of my early offensive army comes from huts and barbs, and the dips do the dirty as much as possible. I will go after a capital with no walls, and sometimes afer a capital with walls if I won't loose out on an upcoming wonder, like MC or KRC.

Horsemen mostly put out the fires of unhappiness (Diety) in early game, plus kill barb leaders. When I build horsemen, it's for mobil happiness control/wonder production.

Dragoons are where I start to come to offensive life. Vet Ironclads are great, and recent talks with some people have almost convinced me about the Lighthouse + M + ST = Super Ironclads (I usually just take Magellans + Sun Tzu = Fast Ironclads).

I use Musketeers/Riflemen to suck up teh first attack of barbs, & kill the leaders... The Cavalry (Vet) is the first time I really will start attacking thru walls.

I never build marines, and always have a complex system of modern unit production... always vets, and always rehomed to a system maximizing Democratic growth. This means Armor and Howies, plus Stealth and Spies with an invincible vet navy. Never ever build bombers, and only one or two nukes, and maybe one or two CMs if necessary. Stealth Fighters usually occur about 10 to 15 game turns after Flight, so I rarely build more than 3 or 4 fighters.... but often over 100 stealth fighters in a large game. Stealth Fs are teh most versitile attack and defense unit in the game, and Vet Spies are the most powerful overall.... except for the mighty Freight![/d]. One freight can be worth an entire wing of SFs, or 3 or 4 vet BBs, or 5 or 6 vet AEGIS (love the vet AEGIS!).

Almost all seaside cities are cleared with ships (+ spies to get the coastal fortresses). Inner cities are cleaned out with Engineers, freight, and howies (RR, partisan blocking, and unit killing). Stealth cleans up any mess leftover.

 

[unknown_spirit]

I have a few questions about your post, starlifter:

Originally posted by starlifter
When I build horsemen, it's for mobil happiness control/wonder production.

What exactly do horsemen have to do with wonder production? I thought Trade units helped with it, not military units.

I never build marines

Why? What is wrong with them? Good on the attck and on the defence, what more do you want?

...rehomed to a system that maximised Democratic growth...

What is this system, may I ask? I don't quite follow what you are saying, here.

And finally, why do you love AEGIS cruisers so much? Battleships are much more powerful, and make shore bombardments a cinch. AEGIS does not do much, except as an escort ship for your Transports. Similarly, this is all Destroyers are good for, although they do it worse than the AEGIS.
I never build Cruise Missiles, except if there are lots of enemies crammed into a single square. This saves on nukes and units, and also dosen't cause pollution as nukes do.

 

[starlifter]

Excellent questions, unknown_spirit!

I can go on for days, but try to restrain my output because there's lots of ways to play & mine is only one opinion & I still continue to learn and evolve .

But......... Since you ask <drinks some coffee>

Originally posted by starlifter: Originally posted by starlifter
When I build horsemen, it's for mobil happiness control/wonder production.
----------
What exactly do horsemen have to do with wonder production? I thought Trade units helped with it, not military units

Before I answer, I should say that I have a rather detailed way of playing, and will only touch on what you ask about, to keep it shorter.

Horsemen are vital in some games to win early wonder races, especially before Trade & caravans. I build key roads for defense & minimal units early on with my NONE settler (Diety usually gives 2 setters). This road system is key for barb defense. It is key for trade. And it is key for early wonders.... I get started on a wonder almost immediately, sometimes by the 2nd city. The wonder city (usually capital) does not have a temple. Happiness at Deity is a problem, and the wonder city has one unit. Newer cities must produce settlers and control units. If I cant get a barb horseman, and I get stuck with HBR due to a stinkin hut, then I'll probably build a very very few horsies. Their function is to trap and kill barb leaders, and to quickly quickly rush from city to city to keep happiness depending on turn by turn happiness and shield needs. This is JIT (Just In Time) management theory, appied to Civ 2.... The horsies are often critical to keeping all citizens working in the 2 or more wonder cities by this point.... but they often have to chase barbs. I can't tell where the barbs will be, so it is critical to be able to make pretty massive military shifts in one turn.... the horsemen are how I do it, since most cities are at least 4/3 movement points apart (I don't play ICS). If I had one movement point units like warriors, a lot of cities, including my templeless wonder cities, would be sucking wind and losing production, and probably losing the tight Colossus & Pyramids race, not to mention the Hanging Gardens. You cannot afford to ignore barbs, both for the money, as well as danger to the cities... so out the defenders go, to force the fight outside the cities. But the wonder cities must maintain happiness at all times.... so I'll bring in horsies from cities away from the threat, and let the cities they came from choke on unhappy citizens until the fighting is done... then everyone shifts back to their "springloaded" positions, to await the next threat.

Hope that helps. It is a lot like playing soccer/futbol, if you know how defenses shift. You don't want slow forwards and wings.

Why? What is wrong with them? Good on the attck and on the defence, what more do you want?

Specifically, I want Alpine movement, or double movement, or 30 hit points. Marines do nothing particularly well, and I use specific units for specific tasks, in general. Captured AI Marines (AIs love them!) get to make one-day Spaceship Components in size 2 cities (2 freight + 2 marines = 1 shiney new SS component in a 1-shield city!!). Marines also get converted into Howies, Tanks, and Stealth Fighters.

..rehomed to a system that maximised Democratic growth..

-----

What is this system, may I ask? I don't quite follow what you are saying, here.

No prob.

Happiness is Job #1 in a PD (Power Democracy). Continious growth of one cit per turn has top priority, unless emergency defense is necessary. My cities are planned to achieve pre-ordained production quotas in Modern warfare as far back as 2,000 or so BC. For instance, Armor.... a city will be specially designed to obtain a correct multiple, like 40 or 80 to get a Tank (armor), and it will spew them out turn after turn. Since an 80s city will likely be exactly 80s, or maybe 82s, when the multiple drops to 79, the pooch is screwed... units must be rehomed to keep tanks flowing out (I'm always in Democracy, esp. in war). So the new tanks must be transferred to other cities, esp. Shakespeare. This keeps the multiple at 80s or greater, and moreover, prevents unhappiness.... though an 80s city is almost always fully grown. But I like all cities celebrating, in case I need a sudden push for combat engineers or instant size 4 or 5 cities.

And finally, why do you love AEGIS cruisers so much? Battleships are much more powerful, and make shore bombardments a cinch. AEGIS does not do much, except as an escort ship for your Transports. Similarly, this is all Destroyers are good for, although they do it worse than the AEGIS.

I'd have to say that modern Naval combat is probably one of my strengths, and I'm a strong naval proponent. The AEGIS protects my Battleships, destroyers, and transports, as well as a mobile SAM for my cities (if necessary). Vet AEGIS will defeat almost anything, even non-vet BBs sometimes. Stacked with a vet BB, they are practically invincible. Stack 2 or 3 vet AEGIS with a BB, and you can suck all the AI Cruise missiles out. The Ai is able to do certain things with CMs and NMs that humans cannot, but that is a topic of another thread (in fact, it's in some threads from last year)....

So I like to have at least one city producing a vet AEGIS per turn, every turn. Ideally, the AEGIS would be rehomed to Shakespeare on the way to combat.

Ditto for BBs. IPRB one vet BB per day, and maybe 2 BB producers for short periods. No AI ships are allowed to roam the seas, LOL!!!! With magellan, about 20 destroyers, and infinite BBs & AEGIS, the oceans are lethal to enemy sea and air power. Enemy partisans don't last too long near a vet BB, either, hehehe.... But it is the vet AEGIS that keeps the BB healthy and able to move 4 or 5 or 6 per turn. AEGIS often get pummeled, and a new AEGIS must be rotated in to take over.... hence the need for lots of vet AEGIS .

I never build Cruise Missiles, except if there are lots of enemies crammed into a single square. This saves on nukes and units, and also dosen't cause pollution as nukes do,

An advantage I give the AI is that I don't nuke them, either by NM or suitcase spy. I self-impose several constraints, and this is one. Besides, the loss of population and damage to terrain is too much for a fast-advancing blitz. Almost all my engineers can be tied up in a large invasion, and don't have time to stop and fix terrain along the way... so no nuking has its benefits for me, too. But...... once in a while, I've been known to nuke and nuke and nuke and nuke.... just for the joy of nuking. The challenge is to get 200 or 300 polluted squares cleaned up in 3 or 4 turns, LOL. Don't want Global Warming!!!

So that's about it! Hope it helps....

 

[funxus]

What's a BB? Is that short for bomber?

 

[unknown_spirit]

I thought it was BattleBoat, or something. But by Christ, I didn't know there was such an anal end to Civ gaming. I'll try to follow all this stuff, though. Thanx. I like nuking, but I only ever do it when I'm on a WDT (World Domination Tour). I simply go and conquer the earth without stopping or making peace or anything like that (see my post: Warfare the Unorthodox Way), and therefore it makes no odds if I pollute every square on the map. I use nukes 'cause of their ability to annhialate every unit in the city, and also within a 1 square radius by pollution. What does strike me as odd is the fact it only drops the pop. of the city by one. Look at Hiroshima. about 70,000 lived there if my memory serves me right. Only about 4,000 left alive, and most died of cancer or something a couple of years later. It dosen't make sense that no-one dies from a nuke strike on Civ!

 

[Dark Ascendant]

Originally posted by unknown_spirit
What does strike me as odd is the fact it only drops the pop. of the city by one. Look at Hiroshima. about 70,000 lived there if my memory serves me right. Only about 4,000 left alive, and most died of cancer or something a couple of years later. It dosen't make sense that no-one dies from a nuke strike on Civ!

What are you talking about, a nuke drops the pop. of a city it hits by half. So it does a lot more damage when it hits bigger cities. Drop one on a size 20, it becomes a size 10 with shrinking food stores. If it hits a size 2, it kills 1 guy, I don't know why that is. It's not as if a village has a better chance of surviving a nuclear holacaust as a city. I mean, the village would be wiped out while the city has people half-buried in rubble. Why is it, that a size one city dosn't even feel the effects of nuclear strike when it should be off the map!?!?

 

[sethos]

You forgot the most powerful weapons: The diplos and spies.
With about 30-40 vet spies and a dozen armours I crack nearly every empire!
Example 1: Bribe enemy cities.
Example 2: Poison the water with different spies until the city is size 1 or 2. Most city defenders can't be supported any more.
Destroy the city wall.s Now it's easy for a tank to capture the city.
Example 3: You can damage enemy units with spies. You can sink a battleship with a trireme ...

 

[starlifter]

What's a BB? Is that short for bomber?

Sorry, forgot it's not a term known by all ! It's the US abbreviation for all Battleships, like the BB 63 (USS Misouri, where the Japanese surrendered at the end of WW II).

 

[Old n Slow]

Dig up a copy of Avalon Hill's Midway game (or any of a lot of less fun sources):

BB = Battleship
BC = Battle Crusier (not in Midway but in other games)
CV = Aircraft Carrier
CVL = Small Aircraft Carrier
CA = Crusier
CL = Small or Light Crusier
DD = Destroyer

 

[starlifter]

Cool summary! The navy does have some logic behind it's classification naming, and the alphabet soup really gets deep for all the ships in the inventory. At Seafair a few months ago (a big outdoor water-based event in Seattle), I was looking at the ship numbers to be sure of what the naval vessels were that showed up or viewing and touring. BB is the only one that I regularly use, because it is 2nd nature and a lot recognize it. DD is pretty common, too.... maybe I'll use it more, hehe.