Analysis : Dwarf (Khazad) Opening Game

Halancar · Aug 21, 2006

I challenged Unser Giftzwerg's "Education rush" opening strategy, on the ground that while it was very well suited to elves, other races could do better via other strategies. Naturally, he immediately challenged me to prove it.

So I will play 2 games to turn 200 with dwarves (Khazad), one with the production/Runes rush I advocated, and one with the Education rush he did. Both will be played on the same map. I even took Giftzwerg's "standard" map parameters : Fractal / Large / Temperate / Medium Seas / Emperor / Raging Barbarians / Aggressive AI / Epic

I will take Arturus Thorne (Industrial / Organized / Ingenious) who is, I admit, better suited to my production rush, and less to the commerce one, than his friend Kandros Fir (Aggressive / Financial / Ingenuity). After all, this is my test, surely I get to set some parameters !

And I will not regen the map at all. Good or bad, they shall play the same map !

I am curious to see who will get to Runes first

Here is the map : View attachment 136324

Halancar · Aug 21, 2006

So, the first game : rush to production.

Here is the game detail :

Spoiler :

So, by turn 200, I have :

4 cities, 15 pop (and 3 sages and one citizen as free specialists)

49 science / turn, 29 hammer (without priorities one way or another), and an extra 4 gold / turn after maintenance.
538 gold in vault (no modifier)
11 GPP/turn

1 Wall, 3 Elder Councils, 1 Temple of Kilmorph, an Academy, and the Pyramid

7 warriors, 1 Soldier of Kilmorph, 2 Dwarven Workers, 1 Thane of Kilmorph (enroute to spread the Runes to my fourth city).

A basic road network between my cities, 3 cottages, 3 dwarven mines

Discovered Crafting, Masonry, Mining, Ancient Chants, Mysticism, Way of the Earthmother, Exploration, Education, and Bronze Working.

Future strategy : I am expecting either a Great Sage of a Great Engineer (50% chance of either) on turn 210, and Arete on turn 232 (or sooner, as my cities grow and I add some improvements). As soon as I discover Arete, I will build the mines of Gal-Dur (hopefully by using the Great Engineer) and Bambur, build Dwarven Warrior, and go on the offensive against the Doviello.

Musings on luck/lack of :
Luck : Discovering Masonry on turn 10 was a stroke of luck, and shaped the rest of my early game. But I could have discovered Masonry by myself on turn 39, and would have gone for it if I had seen stone near my starting position.
Bad Luck : The lack of good tiles to be mined did not play well with my strategy on the other hand. My starting position was not "dwarf strong" (3 hills near my capital, two of them forested ?). I managed anyway.
Bad Luck : no copper in sight. I will have to delay my early conquests. Oh well, I can use Bambur's help anyway.

I attach two savegames : turn 134, the Academy vs Philosophy choice, and turn 200
View attachment 136326
View attachment 136327

Halancar · Aug 21, 2006

Oops ! First try at the Education rush, I discover hostile villagers on turn 5, they kill my first warrior on the spot and raze my capital (defended by my second) on turn 12... I'll have to do better

Second try at second game : rush for education and cottages.

Here is the detail

Spoiler :

Turn 200 results :

4 cities / 17 pop. Runes active in 3, plus 2 outside my nation.

44 beakers and 22 hammers / turn, plus 6 gold/turn at 90% science

569 gold in vault
1 Elder Council uilt (only building)
6 warriors and 2 Dwarven workers built.

Basic road net not complete (need 3 more turns to hook up 4th city)
2 towns, 2 villages, 2 hamlets, 1 cottage, 1 farm (corn), 1 pasture (horses), 2 Dwarven Mines.

Technologies : Crafting / Ancien Chants / Education / Exploration / Mysticism / Mining / Ways of the Earth / Agriculture / Animal Husbandry / Festivals.

Diplomacy : Open Borders with Amurites and Mercurians, commerce with both, know Sidar and Doviello, Mercurians have adopted Runes.

Future : I still have a little room to expand, I managed to push my border farther East. Then it's war with the Doviello (alignment + border tensions), unless maybe they adopt Runes and turn neutral ? Mercurians are set to become good friends.

Musings on luck / bad luck
- huts were as good. Still, nice gold, good for dwarves. I did not get Masonry, but I never had enough production anyway, would not have gone for Pyramid, or else by forgoing the cottage rush.
- Barbs killed a warrior and a scout early, keeping exploration barely over the first game, where it was rock-botton minimal. By turn 69 I had only 1 warrrior defending !
- Food plains may sound cool, but they bring desert, more than the tiles they themselves cover, and lot of unhealth. That "good" starting site was in fact not so good at all once I reached pop 3

- Barbarians were kind enough to found a city right where I wanted it, and donate it to me (well, I had to kill 3 orc spearmen, but my top warrior was up to it). Basically, one free city right there.

Savegame at turn 201 attached (I missed turn 200, but nothing happened that turn).

View attachment 136351

Halancar · Aug 21, 2006

Well, after playing both games, and before the comparison, I have a few remarks :

- The map was far from ideal, for both strategies. There were resources, yes, but they were the wrong ones (no gold, pgems, stone, marble, all good for dwarves; no copper; food resources were too far from the rivers; silk is nice, but on forest, meaning that plantation won't come soon). Plus, I was crowded by other civilizations).

-In hindsight, my playing was far from perfect. In the second game in particular, my defenses were inadequate for the firt 80 turns (bad luck could have killed me easily). In the first, Mining was researched too soon, given that I had nothing to mine. In the second, I should have found a way to get more forest near my capital, even at the cost of flood plains.

-In both games, I explored little (in the first game, because I switched to Pyramid and needed my strating warriors at home; in the second, because barbarians killed my units quickly). And I expanded late (as a matter of tactics in the first game, because I just didn't have enough production in the second).

-In both games, I had some lucky events (Masonry, capturing a well placed barb city) as well as bad luck.

-In both games, the situation is winnable. The second game has me a less developped, but with some room left for expansion, and a good start at diplomacy. War is clearly coming withing 100 turns in both cases, against the Doviello.

-I am either far less skilled than Unser Giftzwerg, or my map was way below is standard in his test.

Now, the lessons learned from the comparison :

The production setup in the first game let me build a lot more things (buildings, units, a wonder). The commerce setup in the second gave me more techs earlier. In the end, the situation is roughly the same (same number of cities, a little more pop one way, more developped resources, more techs, a little more production and commerce the other way). Overall, I would say the two ending situations are more or less equal, with the second one yielding a bigger Empire that still need some internal work, and the first one a smaller, more efficient empire ready to start planning a conquest war.

My conclusions :

In this case, the rush to Education was not the only way to go, not even the best, although it was not a bad choice, despite the real production problem in the first 100 turns. And the rush to Education is not the shortest way to a religion

Getting the Pyramid early is very valuable, easily as valuable as a religion (and you can get both). You get :
- Access to a wonderful civic in the early game, caste system. This gives you a free specialist per city(adding one to the effective pop of each city, with no happiness or health problem), and culture with that specialist (removing the need to build obelisks or rely on a religion to spread culture).
- Great People points early, both from the Pyramid and the free specialists
- Culture (not that it matter much that early).

Flood plains are overrated Really. At the higher difficulty levels, the health problems mean you have to work only the food plains to keep on top of the health situation, and that means you have no production to do anything on the side. Even on Epic, it should not have taken me 140 turns to found my second city ! Yet it did. You need both flood plains and forests within the city radius to make it work.

Ending remarks :

If you have at least one of the following :
- Stone near your starting position
- The Industrious trait
- Are going for Runes as a religion, or get Masonry for free
You should seriously consider building the Pyramid. If you have two (as I did), you should do more than consider.

coko · Aug 21, 2006

Sounds interesting, keep us posted on developments? Maybe give like a comparison of a set turn on one version to the other? Accepting of course the random parameters set by the map, and Ai.

Xuenay · Aug 21, 2006

I would suggest picking some other map type than Fractal - a Balanced map gives more, well, Balanced starting positions. A Mirrored map might also be good.

Halancar · Aug 21, 2006

Xuenay said:
I would suggest picking some other map type than Fractal - a Balanced map gives more, well, Balanced starting positions. A Mirrored map might also be good.

Well, that fractal map is certainly... different. Nothing like what I usually play, so an interesting challenge.

Normally, I would not have played that map with the dwarves (with elves, maybe). It's not, well, dwarvy enough for my taste. But this is just a test, after all, to compare two strategies on a map that is not specifically designed for one or the other...

Halancar · Aug 22, 2006

Both games are played, and my analysis is now complete.

Chandrasekhar · Aug 22, 2006

I found that a very different strategy is the most useful for the Khazad. I played it as Arturus, but in retrospect I think Kandros would do better.

It's pretty simple: turn research to 0 from the very beginning, and focus on nothing but building warriors and settlers. I was able to ride the happycap wave fairly easily, and had 5 cities up in no time.

At this point you should research a few necessary techs (cottages and such), then go through another period of 0 research and expansion. You'll be woefully behind in tech, but when you finally bump into your neighbors, you can turn up your research, and actually pass up everyone else. With this strategy, you can end up with twice as many cities as your neighbors, and the Ingenuitive trait means that you can upgrade your warriors to dwarven soldiers at half the cost.

The only downside is that it's likely that the Fellowship, Runes, and Overlords will be founded while you're doing this. However, I found that going for the Order can really help you now that you have 10+ cities. It doesn't hurt to have Sphener, either.

If I was on an FfH compatible computer right now, I'd play your map with that strategy and post to show how well it does. As is, perhaps some of you would like to give it a spin?

Halancar · Aug 22, 2006

Chandrasekhar said:
I found that a very different strategy is the most useful for the Khazad. I played it as Arturus, but in retrospect I think Kandros would do better.

It's pretty simple: turn research to 0 from the very beginning, and focus on nothing but building warriors and settlers. I was able to ride the happycap wave fairly easily, and had 5 cities up in no time.

At this point you should research a few necessary techs (cottages and such), then go through another period of 0 research and expansion. You'll be woefully behind in tech, but when you finally bump into your neighbors, you can turn up your research, and actually pass up everyone else. With this strategy, you can end up with twice as many cities as your neighbors, and the Ingenuitive trait means that you can upgrade your warriors to dwarven soldiers at half the cost.

The only downside is that it's likely that the Fellowship, Runes, and Overlords will be founded while you're doing this. However, I found that going for the Order can really help you now that you have 10+ cities. It doesn't hurt to have Sphener, either.

If I was on an FfH compatible computer right now, I'd play your map with that strategy and post to show how well it does. As is, perhaps some of you would like to give it a spin?

Interesting, I'll try it. Of course, I'm starting to know the map quite well, but I'll try not to let that influence me.

Offhand, I would say that your strategy makes you vulnerable to a close neighbour that developped good military units early, but let's try and see.

Halancar · Aug 22, 2006

So, third game, mad rush for expansion, no initial science.

Spoiler :

Results :

6 cities (could easily have been 10), 34 population

30 hammer/turn, 6 science, 2 gold (ouch science !)

1988 gold in vault

No improvement built

2 palisades, 1 brewery

13 warriors alive, 16 more dead along with 6 scouts and 1 settler.

Techs : Crafting and Ancient Chants.

Conclusion : 6 cities is too many. Even 5 was. Even 4 probably was. At this difficulty level, you probably need to switch to science after the 3rd city at the latest. As a result, I had lots of production and nothing good to build ! No Elder Council, no dwarven worker (well, I could have, but he would have had nothing to improve), just lots of warrior (that I can't afford to keep), palisades (who ever build them ? They are obsolete so quickly...) and breweries (and without agriculture, they are good for nothing).

Even if you do switch to science after the 3rd city (turn 118 for me), and never build a fourth, you would probably start building cottages only by turn 160. You still would be wondering what to build in the meantime. By then, the other strategies had 3 cities and more, with useful buildings and improvements..

This strategy may or may not have recovered by turn 300 (that is, got adequate science output, but still be in need to catch up). It's only positive point would have been having staked a greater territorial claim.

Or it could have gone to war by turn 150, and possibly overwhelmed a neighbour by weight of numbers. I am not hopeful, by then the Mercurians had Basium, the Sidar had hunters and archers of leaves at least, the Doviello must also have had something...

Final note : the strategy would work better at a lower difficulty setting, which would be more forgiving of the early expansion in terms of crippling science, and possibly yield better exploration results. After all, all that was really missing was the opportunity to build some meaningful building or improvments. As soon as Education came around, and even a little before, building workers would give the cities something to do and commerce output would get up again. But even then, One of the other strategy would have given a better start. Just switch to max gold after Education is researched, forgetting Runes in the second strategy, for example...

Here is the final save :

View attachment 136380

Chandrasekhar · Aug 22, 2006

Wow, thanks for the quick reply. Yes, higher difficulties can be pretty harsh on this strategy. As soon as I get to an FfH compatable computer, I'll try it with Education first. I guess a few turns spent making a worker and such won't hurt the expansion too much.

Unser Giftzwerg · Aug 22, 2006

Halancar said:
I challenged Unser Giftzwerg's "Education rush" opening strategy, on the ground that while it was very well suited to elves, other races could do better via other strategies. Naturally, he immediately challenged me to prove it.

So I will play 2 games to turn 200 with dwarves (Khazad), one with the production/Runes rush I advocated, and one with the Education rush he did. Both will be played on the same map. I even took Giftzwerg's "standard" map parameters : Fractal / Large / Temperate / Medium Seas / Emperor / Raging Barbarians / Aggressive AI / Epic

I will take Arturus Thorne (Industrial / Organized / Ingenious) who is, I admit, better suited to my production rush, and less to the commerce one, than his friend Kandros Fir (Aggressive / Financial / Ingenuity). After all, this is my test, surely I get to set some parameters !

And I will not regen the map at all. Good or bad, they shall play the same map !

I am curious to see who will get to Runes first

Naturally, he immediately challenged me to prove it. :lol:

Cool, I definitely definitely hope the Rush-to-Cottages opening does not prove to be optimum for every Civ. I'm looking forward to your results, though it might take me some time to repky. (Errands, so forth.)

Edit: Skimmed through the thread (though not the spoiler boxes). I will DL your game file and see what I can do on the map. BUT ... I am going to finish the Bannor game I am currently playing for :bounce:

fun

.

This is how I use the DV: 50g / city has no effect until you near your hapycap. So ignore it until pop = 3, then I build it up to 100 to get the 'nromal' happycap of 4 (for that skill level). Now I usually keep it at 100g/city from there on out, until the realm develops some. This is because (my assumption goes) given the way the game rounds-off or truncates fractions, +10% to hammers does not give you much if anything until most cities are producing 10 hammer / turn or more. But I have not tested this assumption in practice.

Then at some later point it becomes advantageous to raise the DV again. Just turn R&D to zero until you are there, then turn beakers back on as hard as they'll go. This period of the game works just like it does for every other civ ... except you are "researching" Dwarven Vault Levels. You use your commerce for Gold instead of Beakers, but you are still using your Commerce to make your civ more capable.

Look at the Tech Tree at the begining. There are few ways to raise a city happycap under low tech. Unless you are teh Dwarves. If you have 3 cities, you spend 300 commerce to raise the happycap of each by +1. That's the same as building a Carnival, in terms of happycap. But it works right away, you don't have to spend hammers to make a building, and it affects all cities not just one. That's a damn fine "tech" for the era. That gold 'spent' building up the vault acts much like a tech would ... but it is a rare tech available only to you. So your early cities can grow bigger, sooner, than other realms. And since God king multipleis commerce converted to gld, but not to beakers, the Vault "Techs" are quite cheap to "research".

So that's how I use it (so far) and yes, Khazad has the potential to be a monster-growth Civ too. Here, at least, the mechanism is very straightforward. I doubt anyone disagreeds the the Vault has a big impact on Khazad. And when it comes time to adjusting Khazad's perfromance, it's like having a built-in parametric equalizer.

In closing, for now.... :goodjob:

Grillick · Aug 22, 2006

I'd just like to point out that, for the capital, anyway, Khazad happycap is the same as other civs at game start, even with their (low) vault setting, because they have Gold.

Unser Giftzwerg · Aug 23, 2006

Grillick said:
I'd just like to point out that, for the capital, anyway, Khazad happycap is the same as other civs at game start, even with their (low) vault setting, because they have Gold.

Ah yep, I guess that was chaned in 015? I noticed the higher happycap this time. My Khazad mind was stil stuck on 014. Sorry 'bout that.

Halencar, I ran your test game. I didn't take notes or anything, but here's some events.

I moved the starting settler inland. Turnsout I dropped it on op of a gold / Hil tile? I was credited w/Gold as soon as I founded my capital so I started with a happycap of 5.

Militarilly, I got a lousy start, including the quick death of both starting warriors. So I ended up building more warriors early on than I did in the test game ... I'm pretty sure at least. I also saw hardly any of the map until I started founding my own cities. Both of these crimped the pace of the first 100 turns a small amount.

On the other hand, I got my cottages up quickly, and barbarian activity was pretty mellow.

Now, I wasn't really in the same mind-set as during my test. I wasn't rying to extract every fume I could find form the economy. The nice thing about Rush-to-Cottages is yo can do just about anything after that. I took Agriculture after I got Education. Since there were not so many hills I decided what the heck, and went tree-hugger on the Dwarves. That was accomplished about turn 155-160, I think ... 170 maybe.

OO was finished shortly before we got FotL. So once again for the heck of it I invented Runes too.

Here's something you will not see in every game ... Runes and Leaves invented in the same city ... Bazaar of Mammon in this city's future? Oh yeah, oh yeah.

I saved the game with only a few turns wasted on Hunting. So it is possible to play the same game going for Runes instead.

Speaking of which, FotL spread like wildfire once it was founded. Spread to every sinlge city I owned before I could use the Disciple. I ventually parked it on the City 5 site and popped up Leaves as soon as the city ws founded.

I had screwed up and somehow misclicked when I set state religion. So I was a No Stat Relion state for 2-3 turnsafterLeaves was invented. I wonder if that had anything to dowith it? Gonna try it out again next time.

Well, I willlook to see what data you collected and see about counting up the same stuff. But that will have to wait a bit. :sleep:

Year 200 and the pre-FotL save attached below.

Halancar · Aug 23, 2006

Unser Giftzwerg said:
Ah yep, I guess that was chaned in 015? I noticed the higher happycap this time. My Khazad mind was stil stuck on 014. Sorry 'bout that.

Halencar, I ran your test game. I didn't take notes or anything, but here's some events.

I moved the starting settler inland. Turnsout I dropped it on op of a gold / Hil tile? I was credited w/Gold as soon as I founded my capital so I started with a happycap of 5.

No, no, that's the Khazad palace providing gold as one of his three starting resources (and you only get two mana resources instead of three.

Militarilly, I got a lousy start, including the quick death of both starting warriors. So I ended up building more warriors early on than I did in the test game ... I'm pretty sure at least. I also saw hardly any of the map until I started founding my own cities. Both of these crimped the pace of the first 100 turns a small amount.

The only game when I didn't quickly lose at least one was the Pyramid rush, where they were both back to the capital by turn 10 and stayed there...

On the other hand, I got my cottages up quickly, and barbarian activity was pretty mellow.

Now, I wasn't really in the same mind-set as during my test. I wasn't rying to extract every fume I could find form the economy. The nice thing about Rush-to-Cottages is yo can do just about anything after that. I took Agriculture after I got Education. Since there were not so many hills I decided what the heck, and went tree-hugger on the Dwarves. That was accomplished about turn 155-160, I think ... 170 maybe.

Neither was I, really, in any of my tests : I play as usual, accepting the fact that sometimes I make small mistakes because I don't think things all the way through, rather than brainstorming every minor decision for 10 minutes...

And I still get to the religion before you do on the straight (no Education) path.

OO was finished shortly before we got FotL. So once again for the heck of it I invented Runes too. Here's something you will not see in every game ... Runes and Leaves invented in the same city ... Bazaar of Mammon in this city's future? Oh yeah, oh yeah.

I saved the game with only a few turns wasted on Hunting. So it is possible to play the same game going for Runes instead.

Speaking of which, FotL spread like wildfire once it was founded. Spread to every sinlge city I owned before I could use the Disciple. I ventually parked it on the City 5 site and popped up Leaves as soon as the city ws founded.

I had screwed up and somehow misclicked when I set state religion. So I was a No Stat Relion state for 2-3 turnsafterLeaves was invented. I wonder if that had anything to dowith it? Gonna try it out again next time.

Well, I willlook to see what data you collected and see about counting up the same stuff. But that will have to wait a bit.

Year 200 and the pre-FotL save attached below.

Will be interesting. All my data is easily counted from the last save

Unser Giftzwerg · Aug 23, 2006

Halancar said:
No, no, that's the Khazad palace providing gold as one of his three starting resources (and you only get two mana resources instead of three.

The only game when I didn't quickly lose at least one was the Pyramid rush, where they were both back to the capital by turn 10 and stayed there...

Neither was I, really, in any of my tests : I play as usual, accepting the fact that sometimes I make small mistakes because I don't think things all the way through, rather than brainstorming every minor decision for 10 minutes...

And I still get to the religion before you do on the straight (no Education) path.

Will be interesting. All my data is easily counted from the last save

When I read Khazad was being given 'gold' at startup, I thought the meaning was the Vault would contain gold at the sart of the game (it does, 50g). I did not realize thye added Gold the resource to the Palace. Well, actually now Khazad starts with ah appycap of 5 ... the other realms start with a hapcap of 4 in their capitols. Do I recall incorrectly?

I am pretty sure I took Agriculture before I went for Leaves. I didn't realize you were going to compare time-to-first-religion, or else I would have driven straight for a religion to make the comparison more direct. And I would have noted the exact turn. :lol:

That (Agri.) was one of the choices I made that didn't seem "best" for a study like this, when I looked back at the game.

I'll count up the stuff. I can confirm the Agri. thing by looking at the turn 130 save file ... I was just beginning Hunting at that time.

Halancar · Aug 24, 2006

Unser Giftzwerg said:
When I read Khazad was being given 'gold' at startup, I thought the meaning was the Vault would contain gold at the sart of the game (it does, 50g). I did not realize thye added Gold the resource to the Palace. Well, actually now Khazad starts with ah appycap of 5 ... the other realms start with a hapcap of 4 in their capitols. Do I recall incorrectly?

You just forget to factor in that 50g is low vault level for one city, so they get a -1 happiness from that, and start with exactly the same happycap as other realms.

I am pretty sure I took Agriculture before I went for Leaves. I didn't realize you were going to compare time-to-first-religion, or else I would have driven straight for a religion to make the comparison more direct. And I would have noted the exact turn. That (Agri.) was one of the choices I made that didn't seem "best" for a study like this, when I looked back at the game.

I'll count up the stuff. I can confirm the Agri. thing by looking at the turn 130 save file ... I was just beginning Hunting at that time.

I compare time-to-first-religion, since only the first get the religion

At the higher difficulty levels with a lot of opponents, or in multiplayer, if you want a religion you must beeline for it, and even then it is not a sure thing.

Grey Fox · Aug 24, 2006

Halancar said:
...or in multiplayer, if you want a religion you must beeline for it, and even then it is not a sure thing.

Yep, in MP its very important to get a Religon early, the +3 Happiness and all the other bonuses makes all the difference.

And if you want to know the fastest way to Runes, ask LordVermillion, he always gets it first in our games (I usually go for leaves since I play tree-hugging vamps

).

Unser Giftzwerg · Aug 24, 2006

(Lost my ISP for about 36 hours.)

On turn 200, I have :

6 cities, 25 pop (no free specialists)

54 science / turn, and an extra 2 gold / turn after maintenance. (Or at 0% R&D, 4 beakers and 66 excess Gold) I did not count up Hammers, will edit in later
1,330 gold in vault (no modifier)
0 GPP/turn

2 Elder Councils, 1 Hunting Lodge

7 warriors, 3 Dwarven Workers, 1 Thane of Kilmorph

2 Scouts and 4 Warriors were KIA

A basic road network between my cities, save for the brand-new 6th city which is 4 turns from connection.

3 Cottages, 1 Hamlet, 7 Villages, 3 Towns, 2Mines, 2 Farms

6 Ancient Forests

Discovered:
Agri, Craft, Exp, AC
Mining, Hunting, Edu, Myst
Wot Earthmother (holy city) Fot Leaves (holy city)

Last 10 turns Bronze Working was being researched, but the Vault was allowed to build up instead (0% R&D for the last 10 turns)

On turn 200 these Khazad were poised for a rapid growth surge . Even the mature cities had room under the happycap to add 2-3 population. The Vault was 1 turn away from being to accomodate another city @ 200g per.

Analysis : Dwarf (Khazad) Opening Game

Warlord

Warlord

Warlord

Warlord

Prince

Prince

Warlord

Warlord

Determined

Warlord

Warlord

Determined

UgLe Game Promoter

Prince

UgLe Game Promoter

Warlord

UgLe Game Promoter

Warlord

Master of Points

UgLe Game Promoter

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