anarchy
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sealman
Hater of Babylonians
I've never heard or seen this. Must avoid prolonged wars under democracy.
I have never had a democracy collapse. Just how long were you at war?
chiefpaco
Emperor
I've never seen a democracy collapse either. What happens? How is it triggered?
Reichsmarshal
Warlord
I've seen the computer's democracies collapse and become communist (It was a world war that was quite useful to start heh). Never had it happen when I was using one though.
Sparrowhawk
The Builder
I've never seen a democracy collapse either.
That's not a collapse, that's just a revolution to maximize their ability to fight.
That's not a collapse, that's just a revolution to maximize their ability to fight.
I have never seen it myself either, but then I rarely stay at war for more than 30 turns when in democracy. However, a few months back someone asked the very same question and everyone involved in that discussion agreed that democracies collapse when at war too long. I had no reason not to believe them and simply passed the information on. 
Kinniken
Riding with William
usualy when I start all-guns-out wars of conquests against multiple civs while in Democracy (so as to keep my research high).
What my population realy do not like is me starting a lot of wars, more than the number of turns it take.
However, I find that if I have a good luxury supplie and/or Universal Suffrage, things gets better. Also, it seems my population can stand winning wars better than loosing them ;-)
What my population realy do not like is me starting a lot of wars, more than the number of turns it take.
However, I find that if I have a good luxury supplie and/or Universal Suffrage, things gets better. Also, it seems my population can stand winning wars better than loosing them ;-)
stachnie
Theorist
It happened to me only once, at the Warlord level. I was involved in a chain of wars, one after another, and at that time I didn't know how to stop them (some of my opponents didn't want to talk with me). After about 10 turns in Anarchy (maybe because my empire was very large) I had decided to quit the game.
Regards,
Slawomir Stachniewicz.
I think it may be triggered when it is no longer possible to pay for the luxury rate to keep cities from disorder + upkeep, due to war weariness.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
I think there are a lot of factors involved, making this hard to predict in general.
I have had a case where:
1) The world had been at peace for a hundred turns.
2) I was in Democracy, with luxury rate at 80%, lots of WLKD and general giddy happiness in the population.
3) I had Universal Suffrage.
4) I attacked one enemy city and my government fell due to disorder.
I think (no way to be sure) that the significant factor which caused the government to all was the number of military units I had stationed in enemy territory. It was fairly large. Couldn't think of any other reason for the fast fall.
Nowadays I use Monarchy for heavy duty warfare.
I have had a case where:
1) The world had been at peace for a hundred turns.
2) I was in Democracy, with luxury rate at 80%, lots of WLKD and general giddy happiness in the population.
3) I had Universal Suffrage.
4) I attacked one enemy city and my government fell due to disorder.
I think (no way to be sure) that the significant factor which caused the government to all was the number of military units I had stationed in enemy territory. It was fairly large. Couldn't think of any other reason for the fast fall.
Nowadays I use Monarchy for heavy duty warfare.
Happened to me twice in my last completed game, and once in a game before that.
The first game I had about 140 cities, was on a domination campaign, and at the time was not the agressor. I had universal suffering. Most cities were in WLTK, there was no disorder. My army was in home territory--though that was conquered territory.
I think the trigger was the proportion of home cities--ie cities that had always been Persian--to the number of conquered citiees, and there fore the 20 native cities were supporting 100 non-producers. war was about 25 turns old.
Last geme, first time I was not the aggressor the first time, and war had only been going about 15 turns. No disorder anywhere, and about half the cities were native cities. No clue.
2nd time, I was aggressor, but i know the war was less than 20 turns. Had universal suffrage, war was short, no disorder, had 150 cities, 30 or so my own home cities.
Now if I know I expect war, I go back to republic.
The first game I had about 140 cities, was on a domination campaign, and at the time was not the agressor. I had universal suffering. Most cities were in WLTK, there was no disorder. My army was in home territory--though that was conquered territory.
I think the trigger was the proportion of home cities--ie cities that had always been Persian--to the number of conquered citiees, and there fore the 20 native cities were supporting 100 non-producers. war was about 25 turns old.
Last geme, first time I was not the aggressor the first time, and war had only been going about 15 turns. No disorder anywhere, and about half the cities were native cities. No clue.
2nd time, I was aggressor, but i know the war was less than 20 turns. Had universal suffrage, war was short, no disorder, had 150 cities, 30 or so my own home cities.
Now if I know I expect war, I go back to republic.
I have fought many long wars (sometimes lasting nearly a century) under republic, and while I will have significant war weariness, my government will not collapse. I guess the governmental collapse is an additional penalty for democracies. Unless the corruption is significantly lower under democracy than republic (which I don't think it is), I really do not see why anyone would want to use it.
Beard Rinker
Warlord
In my experience, when under democracy your government can fall into anarchy because of war. This has happened to me 3 or 4 times and seems to be related to the level of war wearyness. In all cases, I had Universal Sufferage so this wonder does not prevent your government from falling into anarchy. In most of these cases I made sure none of my cities were in disorder so keeping your cities happy will not prevent this.
War wearyness seems to be affected by the following factors:
- Aggressive tactics. Attacking AI's, declaring wars without valid reasons, stationing troops in enemy territory seem to have the largest negative effect on war wearyness.
- Length of time at war. In general, the longer spent at war the worse war wearyness gets. However, if you are not attacking the enemy and only repelling the occasional landing party, war wearyness does not seem to build up. I think destoying enemy units in your territory has no effect on war wearyness. I'm not sure about destorying enemy units on neutral territory.
- Time since last war. Although war weayness goes away once peace is signed, it will come back at the same level if you go to war right away. Your people remember past wars for a while.
- Universal Sufferage. This is supposed to reduce war wearyness and I'm sure it does but it's hard to say how much.
The manual says the under democracy your government can fall into anarcy because of war. It does not say this for republic. I think it is possible to have a prolonged aggessive war under republic without falling into anarcy but you still have to deal with war wearyness.
A common strategy for war under democracy is to keep them short. Take your objective quickly and sign peace. However, each time you sign peace the next time you're at war with that opponent they will not talk to you for a longer period of time. I've had my government fall into anarcy well after my objective was taken and I was ready for peace. The AI would not talk to me so I could sign peace.
War wearyness seems to be affected by the following factors:
- Aggressive tactics. Attacking AI's, declaring wars without valid reasons, stationing troops in enemy territory seem to have the largest negative effect on war wearyness.
- Length of time at war. In general, the longer spent at war the worse war wearyness gets. However, if you are not attacking the enemy and only repelling the occasional landing party, war wearyness does not seem to build up. I think destoying enemy units in your territory has no effect on war wearyness. I'm not sure about destorying enemy units on neutral territory.
- Time since last war. Although war weayness goes away once peace is signed, it will come back at the same level if you go to war right away. Your people remember past wars for a while.
- Universal Sufferage. This is supposed to reduce war wearyness and I'm sure it does but it's hard to say how much.
The manual says the under democracy your government can fall into anarcy because of war. It does not say this for republic. I think it is possible to have a prolonged aggessive war under republic without falling into anarcy but you still have to deal with war wearyness.
A common strategy for war under democracy is to keep them short. Take your objective quickly and sign peace. However, each time you sign peace the next time you're at war with that opponent they will not talk to you for a longer period of time. I've had my government fall into anarcy well after my objective was taken and I was ready for peace. The AI would not talk to me so I could sign peace.
The corruption difference isn't huge, but it can be effective, under the right set of circumstances. If I'm playing a religious civ, I'll use democracy quite a bit in peacetime. In the industrial age I use it to get the 50% worker bonus. In modern times, if my empire is particularly large or strung out, it's about 50/50 whether it's worthwhile to switch to it, and if I'm not religious I won't even bother. If war breaks out, I'll generally let it go a few turns and then switch to Republic or Monarchy. I haven't yet found Communism to be worthwhile. I get a better economy out of Monarchy, and I've never been one to crack the whip or use the draft excessively.
R
Ram Michaeli
Guest
What's that?
We Love the King Day
ivory
What 's the big picture?
I have only a few questions to contribute:
- If they will not talk, is there any way to get peace?
- How and when do you get back to government when your democracy has fallen into anarchy? (My democracies have never collapsed, but I 'd like to be prepared.)
Thanks,
ivo
