Ancient Era Theory Crafting

[Ornen]

Aztec build: Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior. Why build what you can take?

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: Moved to Strategy & Tips

 

[LuckyArt]

so far I haven't seen anything about the importance or traders. I think that they are very necessary to this game. from what I've seen, there hasn't been any talk of the importance of internal trade routes, which I believe will help with growth and production needs of various cities along with defense needs. foreign trade routes build roads to the enemy! trade routes to city states should be hugh.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

Aztec build: Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior, Eagle Warrior. Why build what you can take?

Don't want to derail this thread, but many posters (not necessarily you) seem to think that Eagle Warrior kill automatically means captured Builder. My understanding was that you only have some probability to turn killed unit into Builder (33% or so makes some sense). Do we know how is this for sure?

 

[Acken]

Hmmm I'm pretty sure it is automatic. Even killing scouts with your eagle warriors give free builders in the preview from august iirc.

 

[King Jason]

I don't believe the capture rate is 100%. I'm looking for confirmation on that.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

Hmmm I'm pretty sure it is automatic. Even killing scouts with your eagle warriors give free builders in the preview from august iirc.

IN FL video Sarah says they "can" turn captured units into builders. I always thought it won't be 100%, but recently I realized that almost everybody on this forum thinks the opposite

 

[Zenstrive]

I am curious.
In Civ V i don't usually chop forests, not as mad as I would in Civ IV. Why, I think I haven't chopped any in any games I am in now, except when excavating archaelogical sites.
Is chopping forests in Civ VI really worth it?
I know that a tile's hammer can be boosted with a factory.

 

[Promethian]

I am curious.
In Civ V i don't usually chop forests, not as mad as I would in Civ VI. Why, I think I haven't chopped any in any games I am in now, except when excavating archaelogical sites.
Is chopping forests in Civ VI really worth it?
I know that a tile's hammer can be boosted with a factory.

Its situational. If the forest is in a city that already has good sources of production tearing it down to boost production on something important is probably a good idea. However if the only sources of production in a city are a couple forest tiles waiting for lumber mill is more than likely a good idea as chopping the forest will gimp long term productivity.

 

[Acken]

I'm currently seeing making one chop for the first settler in order to speed up your way for the eureka of early empire as a potential strategy.

You basically make a builder, use it to chop 1 forest and improve 2 tiles. The chop almost covers the cost of the first settler. With a close settle you may be able to get 6 pop across 2 cities in a very fast time for the following settlers.

 

[Martinus]

I don't think expansion is so obvious. Yes there is no penalty for having cities but unlike civ 3 cities take a much longer time before they are productive/pay back their cost. Your build order mean late districts and you may miss out on some good early great people such as Hypathia. If you need extra military unit just to defend it may not be worth the cost to expand as you may be better of teching up and then go on a conquest spree.

Early wonders are very cheap, if you start with two woods you can chop it. An early wonder may give better economical advantage then a city and it is not always possible to conquer the wonders as they could be built on an unreachable continent.

Yeah. Pyramids, for example, give you effectively one free builder for every 3 you build. And there are many early bonuses to Wonder building (Autocracy, Monument to the Gods, some civ bonuses).

 

[Martinus]

I could see builders being rushed out to clear all green in the map to Kickstart a great city.

Given the wonder and district placement restrictions, as well as population-based district cap, again I don't see this becoming a universal strategy.

Plus, if you are clearing all green, you are depriving yourself of very good late game appeal bonuses.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

I'm currently seeing making one chop for the first settler in order to speed up your way for the eureka of early empire as a potential strategy.

You basically make a builder, use it to chop 1 forest and improve 2 tiles. The chop almost covers the cost of the first settler. With a close settle you may be able to get 6 pop across 2 cities in a very fast time for the following settlers.

This sounds fine, but do we know for sure that chopping forest counts as improving tile for Craftsmanship inspiration? It makes this move a little weaker if not.

 

[ExemplarVoss]

I am curious.
In Civ V i don't usually chop forests, not as mad as I would in Civ IV. Why, I think I haven't chopped any in any games I am in now, except when excavating archaelogical sites.
Is chopping forests in Civ VI really worth it?
I know that a tile's hammer can be boosted with a factory.

Yes. Same with marshes. You might keep a few riverside forests away from the city center for lumber mills, but most forests are gong to be obliterated by districts or improvements anyway, so you might as well chop. It's painful in YouTube videos to see people just build on top of tiles they could have gotten something from.

Now, you might not do it quickly or early on, (as I don't believe it counts for the three improvements for craftsmanship), and it is better to focus on improving tiles you work in the earl early game, but at some point they should be used to push the city further.

 

[Acken]

This sounds fine, but do we know for sure that chopping forest counts as improving tile for Craftsmanship inspiration? It makes this move a little weaker if not.

I dont think it counts but Im actually considerig 2 things. Making another builder that will go to the second city or since the eureka culture value of craftmanship is not that high it may be absorbed by a faster monument in city 2. If I play Rome then its most certainly the case.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

One thing I agree with you Acken is that you need to hit Eureka for Early Empire by 2 cities, not one. At first I thought you need to manage 6 pop cap then start pumping out settlers, but now I am pretty sure that it is much better to get those 6pop by having 2 cities already.

At this stage I think some general build order should look like scout, scout, builder, slinger, settler, [monument, 2-3x military, builder in some reasonable order, depending on barbs], trader, settler, settler, settler.
Exactly this [monument, 2-3x military, builder in some reasonable order, depending on barbs] also in 2nd city once started.

Curious how early districts will fit into all of this.

Also, some builder/military needs will be covered by gold, which should make things easier.

 

[Acken]

Yes thats more or less where Im at for early build order. Im still unsure where to fit the monument exactly. Doubling your cpt early is of a great benefit to get somethung as good as early empire or if ill miss craftmanship eureka.

Agoge is also excellent if we need many slingers. Making the delayed craftmanship less good.

 

[Sansa_Stark]

Things will also depend a lot on which CS you meet early as first. Meeting Nan Mandol on turn 3 will equal to free monument, so you can delay your own a little bit (or not, and race through the culture tree).

 

[Zenstrive]

Well, I am uncomfortable seeing early build strategies without inserting wonders somewhere.
How you guys manage to be so...cold ?

 

[Acken]

I think it has 2 origins. Civ5 playstyle and theorycrafting is mostly derived from Deity play which means people tend to neglect early wonders because they are unavailable. The second reason is that even if you are able to get an early wonder it was often at a pretty high economic cost with the added risk of losing the wonder.
This made deity players simply avoid most early wonders and therefore not even bothering making a strategy around them.

Competitive play at a lower difficulty (for HoF for example) still often use early wonders (mostly ToA and GL) because it's less of a risk but players still do it post expansion phase.