Ancient greece mod

[Luthar]

I have started work on a mod set in Greece in the ancient days.
Ive checked around for a while and discovered some mods that shows this period but only in a larger scale (europe, middle east).

Unlike Civ 2 (that have alot of ancient greek mods) I havnt seen a sinlge one for Civ3. So Ive decided to create my own.

Ive done alot of research but Ive seen it rather difficult to sort out civilizations of interest. So therefore I would appriciate some help.
Hopefully, I will be able to use a large very accurate map of Greece, west Turkey and Crete.
Below are the provinces, regions that I think might be suitible as civilizations in this scenario. Like I said before I dont really know how accurate they are. So please, correct me if Im wrong. It would very conviniet if somebody would like to work with me on this project or at least help me out with some city names and areas.


Laconia - Sparta
Attica - Athens, Marathon
Boetia - Thebes, Plataea, Leuctra, Delium, Coronea,
Corinth
Mycenae
Argos
Elis - Elis, Olympia
Messenia - Messene
Thermopylae
Malis - Trachis
Thessalia - Pharsalus, Pheres, Crannon, Larissa
Epirus - Ambracia
Lydia - Sardis
Megaris - Megara
Oropia - Oropus
Troy - Troy
Minoa - Cnossos

As for Corint, Mycenae and Argos, I wonder if they really belonged to a province, area, region or If they just were the cities.

 

[Raw is War?]

Great Idea! I'd love to see a scenario based on ancient greece. You have my support, and good luck on the scenario.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Is this meant to be a mod or a scenario? Both?

In Classical times, Argos was the chief city of the region of Argolis, and Mycenae was a little town in Argolis. Back in the Bronze Age, Mycenae was of course a major place - home to the mightiest citadel in Greece, and, to the extent tradition can be believed, the most powerful city in the Aegean area.

The Corinthian polis was one of the territorially largest, but to my knowledge there were no different names for the city and the surrounding region along the lines of Athens/Attica or Laconia/Sparta.

"Minoa" is backformed from Minoan, isn't it? The later is a modern name given to the Bronze Age civilization of Crete, named after the (likely mythical) king Minos. Simply call it Crete.

In a scenario, you can't very well have all those on the map simultaneously - except Athens, almost none of the Bronze Age major centers were still important in Classical period. What time window are you aiming for?

 

[Luthar]

Regarding the question of mod or scenario I would rather say mod. Hopefully. Thought I am not a map or unit maker, so I hope that I can borrow units and a map from other makers, I have that under progress. But that is not important now.

The timeperiod Im aiming for is the earliest days of greece, that would be copper age (I think), and then til the days of Alexander. I dont think I will include any events like him thought.

I need to figure out some good regions to include. I think in the bronze age. There were most of them then, wasnt it? I know that mycenae conquered alot and so did the Minoans. But this mod will be set in the earliest days (that means only one beginning city) so we will see how the civilizations evovls.

Back to the point thought.
What do you, The Last Conformist (hmmm), think of the regions that I have included now, will they do as civilizations?
And can you add any other cities to the list?

Do you thing I shoul include the macedonias?

I have a map now. I will be using
GLC-map-peloponese.bix
made by LBPB who also is making the Great Lost Civilizations mod. The map is very big, 140x140 and covers all of Greece, Creete, the western bit of Turkey and soutern Macedonia.
So it has a lot of room.

 

[LBPB]

Really interesting !!!

Of course you must include Mycenae !!! It's a major city of the early Greece, and it can grab some land on the north east of Sparta.

 

[Ossric]

well i made a large/huge map of Greece & the west coast of Turkey. You can find it in the map creation forum. (i think the size was something like 199*199 if i remember correctly)

no resources added however, and a couple of trees should be added here & there..

here's the link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50325

size 199*159

 

[Luthar]

Thank you very much Ossric. I will check your map out. It is a nice contribution.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Add Macedonia. Leader could be Philip II or Alexander the Great
and the capital Pella or Aegae. Also, what about Ionia? Or Rhodes?

 

[thestonesfan]

If you are staring in early Greek times, definately include the Ionians.

 

[LBPB]

I'm for the Rhodian too

 

[The Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Luthar

Back to the point thought.
What do you, The Last Conformist (hmmm), think of the regions that I have included now, will they do as civilizations?
And can you add any other cities to the list?

Do you thing I shoul include the macedonias?

For a mod, they're a pretty good collection. Definitively include the Macedonians if the map goes that far north (Ossric's does, of course).

Both Mycenae and (Classical) Argolis certainly deserve to be in, but you're probably having to going to having to chose one, because they're so close geographically.

Termopylae wouldn't be a civ, tho'.

You'd definitely some more Asiatic factions. Milesians, Phocaeans, Lesbians (inhabitants of Lesbos - not the other variety!), perhaps Chians (tho getting AI's work on little islands may be tricky), Phrygians, Carians are some possibilities. For balance purposes, you'd probably better stuff in some Thracian factions, so that the Macedonians can't expand to much to the east easily.

 

[Ossric]

you should probably make the islands civs expansionistic, maybe even give them a trireme to start with.

you should definitely activate the "built often: sea units" & "built often: settlers" in the editor for those civs.

As the Last Conformist just stated, you should take into account that you balance out the civs over the map, so it wouldn't be to easy for a certain civ to expand into a certain area.

 

[Xen]

in the history forums I wrote an article a while ago on the armies of Greece/Greek anatolia, and Crete during the late bronze, or as titled, the trojan war era, it might be helpful to you

 

[Amenhotep7]

I think you should only pay attention to major areas. I suggest don't stress yourself out by making a whole bunch of Civs, then having to find decent leaderheads and UUs. I would focus on people like Sparta, Athenians (Or League of Corinth), Ionians, Thebans, and just have Persia as one unified civ. I know leaderheads for all of them but Thebes. I'm making a Persian Wars mod (or is it a scenario? I forget.) myself. I'm only focusing on them. Though it does sound like a good idea to also add Argolis. Macedonians would be pretty good too, though I believe at the time of the Persian Wars, they weren't much of a kingdom. (I'm starting to get off topic and talkin what I would like for my mod/scenario. Sorry.) Good job , BTW!

 

[Luthar]

OK, Ive been abscent for quite a while. Mostly because I have been moving to a new place close to my university and I also have been studieng alot.

Thank you Xen, your contribution with greece warfare will prove useful. I have read some books on the subjects and what I have encountered that might prove a problem is the lack of interesting units to have in a scenario.

As you yourself stated the greeks used mostly hoplites. Small amounts of cavalry and archers and other various minor units.

So how could I in an interesting way do this in the scenario?

One way is to upgrade the Hoplites, like Hoplite I, II and so on.
Maybe a little boring but at least realistic. Phalanx is just the formation of the Hoplite, right? Or maybe the macedonian hoplite.

What do you think Xen?

---

After some research ive decided to put every city-state as an own civ. Athen, Sparta, Thebes and so on.

The work on the scenario is now still in an research state. It will take some time to set put the correct states, what states that were important and those who you can say were minor states or vassals. I plan to start the scenario around 850 bc, when the city-states formed.

 

[Xen]

well, the next civ expansion is on the horizon, and unlike PTW, this ons AWESOME!

it will address the problem of upgrading units, as it dose it in the scenarios involving Rome with the Roman legionary- and considering this proect is still in its research stage, there should be plenty of time to get the new x-pack, investigate it, and implement all the new editor goodies it will provide (did I mention it INCLUDES the PTW x-pack as a freebie )

the Phalanx is indeed the formation that hoplites used, thogh Mcedonia used troops known as "Phalangites" as well...

 

[Louis XXIV]

An important City-State that should be considered, although it might cause problems, would be Syracuse.

It might cause problems because its on Sicily, but it was still very important.

Throughout its history it battled for control of Sicily with Carthage. Around the time of the battle of Thermopoly, Carthage attacked Syracuse and lost. In the Peleponesian Wars, Athens goes on a daring attack on the city, but they are defeated by the combined Syracuse and Spartan forces.

The question is: Is the mod strictly Greece, or are you going to include outside factors, namely the Persians but there are definately others worth considering.