Annoying thing with ToE

[Greyhawk1]

The situation:

Istanbul was 1 turn away from completing the Theory of Evolution.

I was 2 turns away from researching The Corporation.

I built the ToE the next turn, got Corporation (it still had 1 turn research to do on it) and Atomic Theory as my free techs. The Computer took The Corporation automatically.

My research then went Refinery:13 turns

Surely the previous amount of turns I'd spent researching The Corporation would apply to Refining so it would drop to 1 turn or closer? Otherwise I lost all that research!

I reloaded and crippled Istanbul so the ToE was built after I researched The Corporation. I got that tech then got Refining and Atomic Theory as my freebies and continued with researching Steel.

It was pretty late and I lost my savegame but thats what happened!

 

[tao]

Originally posted by Greyhawk1 Istanbul was 1 turn away from completing the Theory of Evolution.

I was 2 turns away from researching The Corporation.

I built the ToE the next turn, got Corporation (it still had 1 turn research to do on it) and Atomic Theory as my free techs. The Computer took The Corporation automatically.

My research then went Refinery:13 turns

Surely the previous amount of turns I'd spent researching The Corporation would apply to Refining so it would drop to 1 turn or closer? Otherwise I lost all that research!

I reloaded and crippled Istanbul so the ToE was built after I researched The Corporation. I got that tech then got Refining and Atomic Theory as my freebies and continued with researching Steel.

It was pretty late and I lost my savegame but thats what happened!

p5!

You should time the discovery of a new tech for the same turn as building ToE. First the tech is researched, then you can select the next 2 you get for free from ToE.

PS: research beakers are not transfered if you switch research goals. Think about it: just like in real life.

 

[Moonsinger]

Yes, it's all about timing.

 

[alamo]

tao is right, but I usually try for new tech 1 turn before building ToE. Of course, the choices after that are electronics and radio.

There is a bigger story to those non-transferring beakers - it's in the faq now.

You can save big $$$ money by tweaking the sci slider down 2-5 turns before the new tech. You can actually reduce it more than once yet achieve the same turns-to-go. It is yet more micromanagement, but very effective, especially early when cash is short.

 

[tao]

Originally posted by alamo
tao is right

That's what I tell the people all the time.

but I usually try for new tech 1 turn before building ToE.

This is not necessary; same turn is fine.

Of course, the choices after that are electronics and radio.

IMHO, choices are atomic and electronics; radio can wait.

You can save big $$$ money by tweaking the sci slider down 2-5 turns before the new tech. You can actually reduce it more than once yet achieve the same turns-to-go. It is yet more micromanagement, but very effective, especially early when cash is short.

Not exactly. Because of the rounding, it is best not to tweak down several times, but run high long and turn down late, if you can afford it cash flow wise. There are also reports that it is better to oscillate say between 70% and 50% than to go steady 60%.

 

[Shillen]

tao is right, but I usually try for new tech 1 turn before building ToE. Of course, the choices after that are electronics and radio.

You're wasting a turn doing that. If you match them up evenly you'll get the advance first, then you'll build ToE, then you get your 2 techs all in the same turn.

edit: oops, didn't see tao answer this first

 

[Tweedledum]

Another way of doing it is to check whether the turns to research the "next" tech is greater than the turns to build the ToE, and if so just set the science slider to zero and rake in the cash for a few turns... You need to be pretty sure of not being beaten to the ToE by someone else, though.

 

[Greyhawk1]

*scratches head*

You guys are really into this game arent you

I just thought it was a glitch Oh well, next time I'll bear the advice in mind with the ToE.

I'm a newbie but the first thing I learned was the ToE comes roughly at the same level as Atomic Theory. I always get that as a free tech as it takes ages to research and is only a 'qualifying' tech. You dont get any benefits other than being able to research something else later.

I won that game BTW, Space Race in 2000AD with the Zulu's and Persians hot on my heels...

 

[jshutich]

Here's an idea for you...If your timing is not perfect and you need an extra turn or two before you want the ToE completed just go to the city where it is being built and change one or two of your mined tiles to entertainers. Be sure to check first if any other Civ will not beat you to it if you do this but you can slow your completion of the wonder a few turns this way.

In my last game I did this for my building of Sun Tzu's Art of War and Leo's workshop. Many previous games I would complete the Art of War and lose Leo's workshop because everyone switches their Art of War shields to Leo's workshop. What I did was adjusted my shields production in the city for the Art of War so that both wonders completed on the same turn. Worked out great.

 

[Greyhawk1]

Originally posted by jshutich
Here's an idea for you...If your timing is not perfect and you need an extra turn or two before you want the ToE completed just go to the city where it is being built and change one or two of your mined tiles to entertainers. Be sure to check first if any other Civ will not beat you to it if you do this but you can slow your completion of the wonder a few turns this way.

In my last game I did this for my building of Sun Tzu's Art of War and Leo's workshop. Many previous games I would complete the Art of War and lose Leo's workshop because everyone switches their Art of War shields to Leo's workshop. What I did was adjusted my shields production in the city for the Art of War so that both wonders completed on the same turn. Worked out great.

Yeah, thats what I did to delay the production of ToE a few turns, there's a risk of starvation if you are unlucky but its worth the risk.

As for the second tip, I'll bear that in mind. Its hard to get out of the 'must complete!' mindset

A tip I found useful for wonders - if you already have a city in mind for building a must-have wonder, get the production up to the maximum possible (obviously) then build something outrageously hard to build just to amass shields. When you research the right tech to build the wonder switch over production to the wonder. This is a great tactic late in the game when you are racing to finish your Spaceship. All I do is have my cities ready and waiting with full production, managed city moods and the rest and get them to build ICBM's which are very high shield cost. As the techs start coming through, switch from ICBM's to the relevant ship part to get it built just that little faster.

 

[Jurimax]

And in the eralier ages, instead of prebuilding ICBM's, you can prebuild Palace, FP,...

Just make sure if you're prebuilding, that you don't accidentally finish your prebuild before you discover the required tech... damn I should have known my FP wasn't placed right near the ice caps

 

[Shillen]

Yeah, thats what I did to delay the production of ToE a few turns, there's a risk of starvation if you are unlucky but its worth the risk.

Annoying thing about this though is if the city does starve then the governer will automatically put the laborers back onto the tiles, and you'll get the shields from that immediately. So sometimes you end up starving the city for no reason, because it still gets finished on the same turn.

Another thing you can do that someone told me about is to get the city to fall into disorder if possible. That's a surefire way to delay production.

 

[Jurimax]

Originally posted by Shillen


... the governer will automatically put the laborers back onto the tiles, and you'll get the shields from that immediately...

Or you can just turn of the governor.

 

[Shillen]

No, I don't use the governer. But if your city starves the computer will automatically put your laborers back on the tiles. Just like when your city grows a point it automatically puts the laborer on a square of its choosing.

 

[Hygro]

greyhawk1 what patch are you using?

 

[hbdragon88]

Yup, it's happened to me too.

I was one turn from the Corporation and it was finished. I was pretty pissed because I could have just researched it myself and got two more important techs (like communism and espionage) instead I just got espionage.

I never research that area for good reason - all the wonders are down there. Industrlization, Electronics, Scientific Method...

 

[hotrod0823]

You do not have a choice in the first free tech it is whatever you are currently researching. The second free tech is any tech available to you, it doesn't need to be atomic theory in this case.

A common approach is to complete your research on the upper branch be it Corp. or something else and start atomic theroy the same turn you get ToE built. You get AT for free then you can select Electronics and have lock on Hoover. Once you get Hoover close or know for sure you have it barring an AI leader you can trade it away for the other upper techs.

[edit] Shillen was correct, but could be used to get infantry early

Hotrod

 

[Shillen]

You can't bypass Hoover to get to tanks. You need electronics for motorized transportation.

 

[StarG]

I play on Monarch and like large maps.
Personally, when I reach the Industrial Age, I will always try to get TOE but I use a different research order:
1) Steam Power
2) Medicine
3) Buy or trade for Nationalism - anotherciv should haveit by now.
4) Electricity
5) Scientific Method.
I will generally be at war in this period and will generate a leader (or more.) As soon as I have Secientific Method, I use my leader to hurry TOE. I then set science research to 0% but set the next research to
6) Industrialization.
TOE completes and gives me Industrialization on one turn and then asks what I want to research next. I normally choose "Replaceable Parts".

This gives me infantry and artillary. I then turn science back to a normal rate and usually go for Atomic Theory to try for Universal Sufferage. The other civs go for Corporation and I can easily trade for it.

Any comments?

 

[StarG]

Minor correction to last post.
When I start to go for Atomic Theory I am trying to get Hoover Dam., not Universal Sufferage. Universal Sufferage is available from Industrialization and I will be trying to generate another leader to complete it fast.