rebel5555
Brigadier General
It is not illegal to use NOCD patches as long as you own the game.magfo said:
Anti-piracy question
- Thread starter Keith_C
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Jeez seems pretty heavy handed round here! 
Who would want to play Civ 1 now anyway? I sold my Civ 1/2/3/conquests a while ago because Ive now got Civ 4 and Warlords. That site I mentioned is not dodgy in any way at all - its a legitimate site where the authors of said games release them into the public domain...for some reason I thought Civ 1 was there, obviously it wasnt! It probably will be some time soon I would have thought like many strategy games of that era.
Who would want to play Civ 1 now anyway? I sold my Civ 1/2/3/conquests a while ago because Ive now got Civ 4 and Warlords. That site I mentioned is not dodgy in any way at all - its a legitimate site where the authors of said games release them into the public domain...for some reason I thought Civ 1 was there, obviously it wasnt! It probably will be some time soon I would have thought like many strategy games of that era.
Actually, I believe it is. Part of the EULA is to not modify the executables.rebel5555 said:
Don't like it? Don't post here. No one's forcing you to come here.Jimdigriz said:Jeez seems pretty heavy handed round here!
We have rules here, and there's a reason for those rules. And partly because of those rules we (CFC) have a good relationship with Firaxis, Breakaway, and Atari. Not too sure about 2k, but it wouldn't surprise me.
All of the other fan sites I've been to have simular rules. So it's not just us.
Jimdigriz said:
I'm quite familiar with the site you linked to. And yes, it does have a lot of illegal files there. Again, there is no such thing as abandonware. It's a fiction. Either the game's creators still hold the copyright and therefore it's piracy, or they have released it to PD and you can freely download it. But to call it abandonware is not accurate.
And plenty of people still play the older civ games. They've tried the newer games, and don't like them.
as to abandonware, thats pretty much true. technically, a copyright can be abandoned if you dont assert it every 7-10 years, which is why you see whoever owns sierra these days claiming theyre coming out with a new compilation of the old kings quest games. even though theyll probably never release it, the act of keeping the copyright in use is enough to ensure they dont lose it.
a breach of the EULA is not a breach of the law. someone up ahead of me in the thread stated that it was "illegal" to use a no-cd, implying that congress or a state had passed a law prohibiting such activity. my question was, what law? not that i dont think its possible -- there are certainly parallels out there, such as the CSS encryption on DVDs. its illegal to crack even if you own the dvd. so its possible that theres something similar at work here, and even more likely that if this kind of this is illegal, its exactly the same law that makes it illegal (the DMCA). i was just wondering if anyone had any more details.
i dont ask becuase im trying to argue it should be permitted -- i purchase my own games, even when the game turns out to suck (see MOO3). its just the kind of question i find interesting.
i still play civ2, especially on my portable.
a breach of the EULA is not a breach of the law. someone up ahead of me in the thread stated that it was "illegal" to use a no-cd, implying that congress or a state had passed a law prohibiting such activity. my question was, what law? not that i dont think its possible -- there are certainly parallels out there, such as the CSS encryption on DVDs. its illegal to crack even if you own the dvd. so its possible that theres something similar at work here, and even more likely that if this kind of this is illegal, its exactly the same law that makes it illegal (the DMCA). i was just wondering if anyone had any more details.
i dont ask becuase im trying to argue it should be permitted -- i purchase my own games, even when the game turns out to suck (see MOO3). its just the kind of question i find interesting.
i still play civ2, especially on my portable.
after a little research, creating, offering to the public or providing a NOCD patch probably is illegal, under the same DMCA provision that prevents people from distributing tools to let DVD owners crack the region encoding. it gives rise to a civil cause of action to the folks who made/distributed the game. its also a criminal offense if it was done for commerical advantage or personal financial gain. not sure how that fits in with all the pirating groups out there who do it just to do it, but my bet would be that "personal financial gain" is broad enough that theyd be liable.
as for just using a nocd, thats a tougher question. my initial feeling is that its not illegal under this particular section, though there could be something else out there.
as for just using a nocd, thats a tougher question. my initial feeling is that its not illegal under this particular section, though there could be something else out there.
phl
Chieftain
Ok! I agree, it's quite nice not to think about a CD.
From the developers view. There are quite a few people who are still on basic dialups (seen it quite a few times on this forum) and quite a few basic people who run their basic day to day stuff who are compleatly unable or without the knowledge to access pirated software. So if there wouldn't bee any copy protection they could just copy the cd's between friends (wich isn't so hard even for newbies, it was done quite often when i was a kid (long time ago)).
Conclusion:
I don't think the copy protection is there to stop piracy but just to keep somkind of a sales revenue. Don't know but I would be very surprised if I'm wrong on this.
Yes there aren't any laptops without a CD drive but many that dosen't have them integrated (yes I can see the problem)
PS. CD's dont wear by using them, it's the time that makes them unreadable.
PHL
From the developers view. There are quite a few people who are still on basic dialups (seen it quite a few times on this forum) and quite a few basic people who run their basic day to day stuff who are compleatly unable or without the knowledge to access pirated software. So if there wouldn't bee any copy protection they could just copy the cd's between friends (wich isn't so hard even for newbies, it was done quite often when i was a kid (long time ago)).
Conclusion:
I don't think the copy protection is there to stop piracy but just to keep somkind of a sales revenue. Don't know but I would be very surprised if I'm wrong on this.
Yes there aren't any laptops without a CD drive but many that dosen't have them integrated (yes I can see the problem)
PS. CD's dont wear by using them, it's the time that makes them unreadable.
PHL
copy protection is also there to give companies an excuse to sue serial infringers. developers know their code will be cracked, but if the act of cracking it or distributing the crack lets them sue, they can use the courts to shut down pirates. this is how the RIAA has more or less eliminated peer-to-peer music sharing. criminal enforcement is essentially nonexistant, but between the cost of defending a lawsuit being so high and the fines, theres no way to win that kind of case.
this is the logic behind the DMCA (at one point, everyone really believed CSS woudl never be cracked -- that was stupid). now, weak encryption is routinely built into content. although the studios and software companies certainly spend money to develop anti-piracy software and technology, its not worth spending the huge amounts of money and annoying legitimate consumers in teh way that would be necessary to stop it. instead, they build in a relatively weak encryption, knowing that they can use lawsuits to stop the big-time infringers. the best example otu there right now for that is the HDMI encryption built into HD television signals -- it'll be broken, probably pretty soon. but its not really tehre to stop you from viewing the content on an unapproved piece of hardware, its there to give cable companies and studios a hook to sue on.
this is the logic behind the DMCA (at one point, everyone really believed CSS woudl never be cracked -- that was stupid). now, weak encryption is routinely built into content. although the studios and software companies certainly spend money to develop anti-piracy software and technology, its not worth spending the huge amounts of money and annoying legitimate consumers in teh way that would be necessary to stop it. instead, they build in a relatively weak encryption, knowing that they can use lawsuits to stop the big-time infringers. the best example otu there right now for that is the HDMI encryption built into HD television signals -- it'll be broken, probably pretty soon. but its not really tehre to stop you from viewing the content on an unapproved piece of hardware, its there to give cable companies and studios a hook to sue on.
phl
Chieftain
I agree CODEAARON, but I still belive it helps them to get the everyday loosers bucks.
Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
That is true... But what about mini-images?
Comrade_YORI
Chieftain
Elhoim said:
As mini-images only writes the protection scheme of the game and not the game itself it doesnt constitute as to copy the game, however there can be laws that hinders you to write/copy that protection scheme.
vilemerchant
Prince
Just download the NO-CD cracks and be done with it. It doesn't hurt the game, it doesn't hurt Firaxis.
Elhoim said:
distribution of any measure that gets around the copy protection would violate DMCA. similarly, im sure the EULA has a general prohibition on getting around teh copy protection, in addition to any specific language about modifying executables.
Panda
Metal head
I don't think Sid or Soren will come checking the executables on your HD... 
auldian
King
Actually, you're encouraging the creation of the No-CD cracks. You can also encourage buying stereo equipment or notebook computers from the vans often parked on city streetcorners. Maybe the obliterated serial numbers once belonged to you.vilemerchant said:
MrAnon
Chieftain
and it works with CIII/4/4W: http://www.gamejackal.com/home.asp.
I was pretty skeptical when I d/l'd the trial because I've seen so many products like this come and go over the last 20 years but was pleasantly surprised. Configuring it for a game is trivial and I've not detected any slowdown/CTD or other issues with running my games with it. I'll often have several progs running while gaming and alt-tab back and forth - so far no problems and I've been running GJ on all my games since April.
The only complaint I've got (and it really is minor) is that I had to create a new profile when I upgraded to Warlords. That's not a big gripe, though, because all you have to do is lauch GJ, start and play for a little bit with the CD in, then exit the game/close GJ. AFter that, no CD needed. It doesn't muck with the executable and hasn't had a problem (yet) with patches on anything.
I strongly recommend you d/l the free trial and give it a whirl. Since it doesn't touch the game files you really have nothing to lose except the CD hassle.
I was pretty skeptical when I d/l'd the trial because I've seen so many products like this come and go over the last 20 years but was pleasantly surprised. Configuring it for a game is trivial and I've not detected any slowdown/CTD or other issues with running my games with it. I'll often have several progs running while gaming and alt-tab back and forth - so far no problems and I've been running GJ on all my games since April.
The only complaint I've got (and it really is minor) is that I had to create a new profile when I upgraded to Warlords. That's not a big gripe, though, because all you have to do is lauch GJ, start and play for a little bit with the CD in, then exit the game/close GJ. AFter that, no CD needed. It doesn't muck with the executable and hasn't had a problem (yet) with patches on anything.
I strongly recommend you d/l the free trial and give it a whirl. Since it doesn't touch the game files you really have nothing to lose except the CD hassle.
Turner said:
Hmmm maybe my mistake as the site's disappeared! Personally I dont see what's so wrong about being able to download games that are well over 10 years old which are not even being sold anymore but there you go! Especially if its a game which you bought and does not work on XP (this happened to me with UFO - I had to dl it from said site to get a workable XP version) - I must point out that I bought said game for the Amiga and the PC, it worked on Windows 95 but would not work on 98SE or XP.
You still seem heavy-handed to me, I know that nobody's forcing me to post here, I dont need you to tell me. Maybe too much warmongering on Warlords has gone to your head?! Aggressive/Imperialistic maybe?
Except Civ1 is still being sold....
vilemerchant
Prince
auldian said:
What a lot of rubbish. The PIRATES are going to create NO-CD cracks regardless of whether a paying customer like me would like one. You're welcome to carry discs around as much as you like, I choose not to.
auldian
King
You choose to use illegal software.vilemerchant said:
And no, it's not rubbish. The hackers do it for kicks. If nobody (like you) visits their sites and downloads their code are they going to keep hacking? Not much thrill there. You DO encourage piracy and hacking and whatever it blooms into 1, 5, or 10 years from now when you advocate illegal software now.
This isn't rocket science.
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