Anti-Tank... how can they be so powerful?

[gettingfat]

I know it's all in the name of "game balance", but has the game dev gone a bit too far? I've never heard of any anti-tank weapons so effective -- 100% bonus vs armored units plus free ambush promotion and is significantly cheaper?

I don't mind some means to slow down a tank rush if a civ just happens to get industrialism 20 turns earlier. Still you have to reward this civ for getting the tech earlier. You can't make a counter both cheaper and has over 50% chance winning the battle. Just pick one, e.g. make it cheaper but wins only 30%, so they are still useful to somewhat slow down the rush till they research industrialism by themselves.

 

[Solver]

Their weakness s simple. They suck against everything else, and only have 50% odds against Riflemen. As such, Anti-Tank can't really attack Tanks because better units in the stack will almost only defend - which makes Anti-Tank only really good at defense. And there they have the disadvantage, again, of low strength - if they get wounded just a little, Tanks can kill them.

Anti-Tank does mean that Tanks no longer own everything in their era, but I think they're far from overpowered.

 

[weimingshi]

tanks don't rule on their own now. you need to mix it up with support. If you run up against alot of anti tank, just soften it with bombers or artillery before you attack. The ones that really rules are those city raider II or III infantry or mechanized infantry that you upgraded from maceman. I always have about 20 of those, they can tear through cities almost as better as tank or mordern armor, too bad they can't do collateral damage. The beauty about them is that you can get them alot earlier than tank or mordern armor. And during this huge gap, you absolutely rules city sieges.

 

[DrJambo]

Their weakness s simple. They suck against everything else, and only have 50% odds against Riflemen. As such, Anti-Tank can't really attack Tanks because better units in the stack will almost only defend - which makes Anti-Tank only really good at defense. And there they have the disadvantage, again, of low strength - if they get wounded just a little, Tanks can kill them.

Anti-Tank does mean that Tanks no longer own everything in their era, but I think they're far from overpowered.

Exactly.

 

[Antilogic]

I never thought a counter was necessary in the first place. For some reason, I always seem to get to Flight pretty quickly, and I can't count the number of times (in Vanilla and Warlords) I've been attacked in force by tanks on my border, and I can quickly use fighters/bombers to soften them up and then attack with Infantry. I cackle with laughter every time my little fighters strafe those tanks.

 

[kniteowl]

You can always give the tanks pinch or attack with you're artillery, I dont see how their overpowered except maybe in the hands of a Protective leader, CG3 Anti tack fortified in a City lol... Wonder's how the tank will fare.

 

[Dagta]

I was surprised to see Anti-Tanks are available before researching rocketry.

How exactly do their 'rocket' launchers work?

 

[Solver]

The graphics don't really match what the unit represents, IMO. I think of the Anti-Tank unit as early tank counters, something like the German 88mm guns, PAK43 or somesuch. That's because the Tank unit doesn't represent modern tanks but seems closer to WW2-era tanks.

 

[Nooble]

How come you can invent a counter for a tank way before you can build tanks?

 

[mnf]

That's no problem. It's always easier to destroy than to build.

 

[Infantry#14]

Make sure to have tanks with pinch and all city raider promotion. Remember CR 3 gives you an additional 10% vs gunpowder, which makes subsequent combat promotion for tanks better against anti-tank.

 

[Carnage04]

How come you can invent a counter for a tank way before you can build tanks?

Maybe by thinking of the research as not completely linear? Visionaries always dream of what may be in the future. If technology is moving in a fashion that says "Two Decades from now we could see huge armored guns on wheels ravaging our countryside" it is never too early to start planning for it.

 

[BobTheTerrible]

How come you can invent a counter for a tank way before you can build tanks?

That's my only gripe with anti tanks, from a logic perspective (I have no problem with them gamewise, it's just a funny quirk). "We have a weird feeling that sometime in the near future, big armored war vehicles will dominate the battlefield, so even though we have no idea how they look or how they'll work yet, let's design something to blow them up."

 

[Jaybe]

Just because you have the tech capability to build AT doesn't mean you should until there is a potential tank danger present. Once there is (and you have the tech), THEN build them -- or pretend that those "prebuilt" AT by you or the AI weren't built until the threat appeared.

It's a game, therefore an abstraction.

 

[Antilogic]

How do they know tanks will be dangerous and they need anti-tanks? Umm...they looked at da Vinci's drawings?

Okay, I got nothing funny. But I think the anti-tank is a funny unit to have before tanks are available. Just doesn't seem right...maybe they should be available with Industrialism as well, just so its the same tech that enables them.

 

[Nooble]

Maybe they should come after the tanks, so whoever researchs tanks first gets an advantage as a rewards. Then anti-tanks should come in play a couple techs later.

 

[frob2900]

The graphics don't really match what the unit represents, IMO. I think of the Anti-Tank unit as early tank counters, something like the German 88mm guns, PAK43 or somesuch. That's because the Tank unit doesn't represent modern tanks but seems closer to WW2-era tanks.

The anti-tank is a Panzerschreck (ca 1943 german armament), so it's eminently WW2.

 

[Antilogic]

Why couldn't it be something more funny, like the Soviet PTRD? Those good ol' anti-tank rifles...

 

[frob2900]

Why couldn't it be something more funny, like the Soviet PTRD? Those good ol' anti-tank rifles...

I think the PTRD was kind of useless against mid-war tanks, whereas the Panzerschreck wasn't. Toward the end of the war the Panzerschreck was also getting outdated AFAIK.

(this knowledge courtesy of me playing Close Combat III: The Russian Front a little too much )

 

[Solver]

The anti-tank is a Panzerschreck (ca 1943 german armament), so it's eminently WW2.

Ah, of course. For some reason I keep thinking of modern weapons such as Predator SRAW when I see the graphics.