Any actual use for the Order social policy?

[ComradeKino]

You know what I mean? I've never aimed to get it. I've generally gotten Piety or Rationalism before it and if I'm looking for a Culture win I want to get Freedom, right? It seems like a waste of culture.

I can see a situational use for Autocracy during the Industrial Era end game if your a warmongerer. However Order seems like it only helps you build up and you should already BE built up if you are going for your 4th or 5th social policy branch in the Industrial Era.

 

[Brichals]

Just if you want to feel like a late game total boss but it doesn't make you win faster I would agree.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I can see it working well for spaceship victory. It'll really boost the building of those spaceship parts.

You can also use it to weaken diplo victory, although a smart player would never buy city-states until a turn or two before the counter finishes.

 

[ShahJahanII]

It is a great tree.
Say I had 15 cities by industrial.
I also had 10.
The tree alone would bump me to +5
along with a bnch of great policies later.

 

[joncnunn]

Order: I love that tree myself (under the new arrangement)

The more cities you have the better for this policy; basically if I have a lot of cities but few CS allies then I go this one; while with few built cities but a lot of CS allies I go patronage.

When I go Order it's my 3rd or 4th tree to complete. This is a case in which building cultural buildings at the proper time helps. Since this policy only unlocks in the industrial era, you don't really want Opera Houses built prior to Industrial era if your after this as the 3rd policy tree; but once you unlock the era, you want to go an Opera House building boom to quickly unlock this tree.

 

[TommyVern]

Order is pretty boss for any ICS strat.

 

[Lord Chambers]

Freedom is a must for cultural victory, Rationalism is a must for science victory, Autocracy or who cares is good for a Domination victory, Order might be the late-game money saver that's worthwhile for Diplomacy.

Or time. Order is the best tree for a time victory.

But really it's just a grab bag.

Opener - each city generates 1 happiness
United Front - Militaristic city states grant units twice as often when you are at war with a common foe.
Nationalism - 25% attack bonus when fighting in friendly territory.
Planned Economy - Factories increase a cities Science output by 25%.
Socialism - Gold maintenance costs of Buildings reduced by 15%.  
Communism - +2 Production per City and +10% Production when constructing Buildings.
Finisher - +1 science, gold, culture, and hammer in each city

The opener is a boost to happiness. Planned Economy is a minor boost to science. Socialism is a boost to gold. Communism is great but late. But United Front and Nationalism aren't worth spending SPs on.

I'm currently doing an ICS cultural game with the French and I can see Order being a meaningful fifth policy track when normally the fifth is irrelevant, but that's about the only circumstance I see Order mattering. In most other victories and strategies, other policies will be your target and Order is second string.

 

[Roxlimn]

I think it depends entirely on how fast you can get to Industrial and whether or not you're building Opera Houses. Spamming Opera Houses and Museums can get expensive, but it will allow even a moderately sized Civ to get Rationalism Policies and then strip out quickly to Order. The Opener and Planned Economy are a welcome boost to Science, especially if you already have everything in Rationalism save Scientific Rev (which you'll save, natch).

The Opener is a nice boost to happiness just at a point where you might be thinking of an Industrial Era push, or a growth spurt in the middling cities powered by Hospitals.

 

[Poomermon]

Orders opening policy is pretty good and it is sometimes worth taking. For example if you have a big empire and have no need for freedom or autocracy just grab the opener for a nice happiness boost.

 

[Venger]

If you have a ton of cities and are running into happiness issues, just opening the tree solves that for 40 turns. I haven't used any of the further ones - too many better ones in other branches - but that 1 happy per city can get you out of a happiness jam quick, and once you get more happiness, you can ditch the branch altogether if you like with no great loss.

 

[Strategist83]

If you think Order and Autocracy have no use you need to stop playing the idiotic AI and venture online to find out what the game is really supposed to play like.

It's very sad, really. I suppose the majority of the playerbase has no idea just how distorted an experience they're getting by not playing real opponents.

 

[Bezurn]

Works GREAT for puppet empires.

In my current game playing as Arabia and I have 33 cities (12 of them are puppets). I've finished liberty, piety, and 2/3 of commerce. It's turn 404 (epic speed) and I'll be finishing order in 11 turns. Having built 21 cities myself culture victory could be a pain, will finish commerce and then try to get the right side of honor. China on the other continent has 2/3 of it to herself and needs to be dealt with. She's sitting on 40k gold so prepping for a major war here soon while I farm Russia to my north for some elite tanks.

 

[Poomermon]

If you think Order and Autocracy have no use you need to stop playing the idiotic AI and venture online to find out what the game is really supposed to play like.

It's very sad, really. I suppose the majority of the playerbase has no idea just how distorted an experience they're getting by not playing real opponents.

Condescending much? Multiplayer is a completely different game from singleplayer and it is not reasonable to mix strategies that work in multiplayer with normal game. I believe there is a subforum for multiplayer talk here in civfanatics. Anyway in my experience multiplayer generally does not last long enough to order or autocracy to come into play.

 

[joncnunn]

On the weaker two sub policies: What makes them worthwhile is the finisher. And for getting that is a reasonable timeframe having Opera Houses in core cities works wonders.

And yep; anyone that just wants the happy bonus can cherry pick the opener and not advance further.

 

[ComradeKino]

I guess that Order has odd uses... sounds good for puppet empires or ICS. ICS can block other empires from the typical victories, I suppose, until you get a dom, science, or time.

Someone said that I must only play singleplayer against the AI. Actually I wanted to know if Order would be useful in multiplayer games too. People tend to rush to Spaceship late game forcing war from others to prevent them from winning and causing general chaos in Multiplayer games. It is difficult to GET to the time victory for this reason. If you're nuked/nuked-back, then a time victory is probably out of the question.

I'll try it in my next game. I've never AIMED for it and it sounds like a beast combo with Opera Houses, Museums, and Broadcast Towers etc., if not to get a cultural victory (because having too many cities increases the social policy cost too much), then to get social policies more effectively late game leading to some sort of dom or science victory and to scoop up all of those strategic resources.

Maybe Order would work well with Russia, France, Rome, and Siam's UAs?

 

[chgrogers]

On my last game I used Order. It was an unusual game for me mostly anyways. I took the trees I normally don't take. Tradition, Piety, Order, Commerce. Taking Order helped me get a happiness boost by that time, all my long time trading partners realized I was winning wars and I started taking cities left and right.

I don't think the +25% science boost helped all that much I had a major tech lead just by the 3 Observatories. 2 built in 20 pop cities and one built in a puppet.

United Front - Ballooned my army size. I had allied many of the Military city-states on the map due to strategic positions. During my wars they were giving units very quickly. I think it could work well with Patronage except by the time your in an endgame war with everyone there are so few turn they would nope pop many units for a diplo victory.

Socialism - I already had a strong economy it just made it stronger, didn't notice the boost much.

Communism - I think this would work well with the +3 production to coastal cities on a Island or small continents map but overall it feels a bit weaker than other policies.

For me it seems that Order works well when mixed with the strengths of other trees and will help make up for the things tree you skipped and are lacking, A grab bag, you get a little of everything.

 

[dexters]

Order post adjustment is very strong. It is basically the mirror to Freedom and is meant for large puppet empires.

the completion bonus of 1 gold 1 culture, 1 food, 1 science is pretty good.

 

[fmlizard2]

Order is fantastic, especially the opener in a wide empire. Often the first Order policy is a sight for sore eyes in a happiness-challenged puppet empire.

The rest of the Order tree is a strong generalist path. It doesn't have as specific of a purpose as Autocracy or Freedom, but overall the tree is the best of the 3 late trees.

Order is the best late tree for a win (presuming you already filled Rationalism) and is very strong for Diplomatic wins as well. Order works well to improve the infrastructure of a nation going for any victory condition.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Did they completely get rid of the old United Front ability? I know most people hated it, but it would be a life saver for me right now.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

For me the general idea is this
CULTURAL VICTORY : Piety (obviously), Tradition, Freedom, Patronage (for Cultural CS) and Honor/Commerce.

however, like it cleary states "Order and Liberty is for big empires (Science/Diplomacy/Domination) while Tradition and Feedom is for small empires (Cultural).