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Any specific Barb behaviours You have observed

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Victoria, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    To be fair, after glancing over the whole thread, it's hard to know what would constitute a 'specific barb behavior' not already covered by your analysis or these comments.

    Very anegdotal:
    It seems that barbarians are doing a calculation on their 'health remaining' after a potential attack, taking into account units they can see and they will perform the 'move out and move back into camp' only of one of these units is an unreachable ranged unit. Basically, they behave as if already too wounded. So far I've definitively seen this behavior with my 2 archers advancing toward a camp, but it might've also been the case with (full health) scout and archer.

    Also very anegdotal:
    I think barb tech works the same or similar way as in CIV4, as in: if you don't reveal horses, they won't spawn horse units (will happily spawn galleys tho).
     
  2. Galvatron

    Galvatron Prince

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    It's objective fact. You can find this in the game files and test the behavior for yourself to confirm whether or not these things change the barbie behaviour
     
  3. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Like most combat stats I have seen, there are based on base only, no modifiers from promotions, level, governments.
    I will keep an eye out, it does seem like next to, but I have not been specifically watching, will do so now.
    Yes, a strange situation, a barb spear moves out of a camp (it has defend camp orders) and enemy units disappear from view. The spear ideally should then move back to the camp but instead, like all defend camp units, they appear to stand still until a target is visible. A few ways to fix but it does appear to be a significant weakness just like drawing them out with ranged.
    I have been trying to assess this area more, working on it.
    Unconvinced but not disbelieving. I may have to go down to hot seat map to test this.
    And this I have been doing, I did not say it was impossible, I said difficult. Yes boldness I must crack for any decent guide which is why I was asking if you had any evidence for what sounded like clear assertions. Seemingly you do not.
    Boldness is not tracked anywhere so will have to be physically counted each turn in each scenario which must be tested many times. You had me hoping for a brief second.
     
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  4. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Here's how it worked in Civ4, quoting another post: "Once a tech has discovered a tech their is a small chance that the barbs will also discover it. The chance of this happening depends on the dificulty, and the number of players who have that tech. I think they got it really fast or instantly after all other civs had it."

    Obviously, it might be different in Civ6 and there might be a huge difference between say Prince and Deity (not sure if in Civ6 AIs start with more techs on deity).
     
    Victoria likes this.
  5. King of Prussia

    King of Prussia Warlord

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    I always thought barbs got a tech after a certain % of players got that tech.(more than half?) I am pretty sure i had horse barb units attack me before i had horses revealed. I tend to play on king/emp so with all the boosts the AI get, they have units and resources before i do. in the early game anyways.
     
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  6. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

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    Barbs get Cartography easily. Probably so they can cross the ocean.
     
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  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    VI seems to take the 50%, I think there is even a parameter to that effect. I can guarantee that military tradition flanking and support values for barbs work in this way. 50% of civs get it and barbs suddenly get it (on their next turn)
    appears to be the case but will try and validate a bit more. Just because Military tradition does...
    Play Deity Pangea, them barb caravels can take quite a while as the AI ploughs through the middle/bottom of the tech tree.
    I agree... Also rubbish 3 MP strength 20 Barb horses only spawn until 50% of civs have horsemanship.
     
  8. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

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    Interesting. I never play Pangea, because it is unfair to water civs (I only play huge maps).

    I can confirm the anti-cav camp defender is now attacking ranged and scout units, even 2 tiles away. It seems to do a base strength comparison.
     
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  9. Galvatron

    Galvatron Prince

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    I'm sorry if I sounded overly short, but I was posting on my phone I didn't mean to be so.

    I'll cut you some slack here since everyone uses the word 'objectively' online to mean 'I really think so, but I meant objectively. As in the difference in behaviour can be viewed objectively when you track it. I didn't quantify it however, I just checked to see if it made a difference, so I can't say what the relation ship is numerically, but I do know that it exists and it behaves remarkably similar to the code.


    You mean it's not AUTOMATICALLY tracked in a way VISIBLE to the user, right? Because it is clearly tracked, and automatically....

    Just to be clear, you are aware of the data that details how in game events affect the behaviour of barbarians, and how they can be found in the XML files, right?

    Expectation only leads to suffering.

    Also if you didn't see the reddit post about barbie behaviour there's one that went up recently.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/ff1fah/something_you_should_know_about_barbarian_in_civ6/
     
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  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Thank you for this, no I have a family and some land so have little time for other forums. I like this one for the friendliness and the lack of ads. They have done a great post, the only thing on that post I am unaware of is boldness, I have seen it in the parameter files with all of its modifications but I am not 100% convinced the said behaviour is right. However great work from them and you showing me this post is exactly the type of thing I create the thread for so a huge TX. It’s one thing to write something but testing it well and getting it as right as you can just helps avoid disinformation out there. And there is a lot of that which goes around, exactly why they created their post.

    Yes, apart from I did not notice boldness anywhere. I will look again, must be just missing the wood for the trees. However, this reddit post while really useful seems a little inaccurate In some ways. For example the ‘second wave’ is a separate behaviour tree triggered by one troops return at the end of the turn timers for the raid city tree. It may also be affected by boldness and finding this value in the files will be useful.

    So not objectively at all then, tx at least that clears that up.

    I thought that until I compared archers to scouts. Both have the same strength but they will not pop out for scouts. It seems ranged oriented. I’ll see if a spear will come out for a cannon... and a frigate :)
     
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  11. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

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    Oops, I meant the recon line ranged units. They appear to preemptively attack anything which has lower melee strength than ranged strength, which is actually not a bad move for them.

    In my latest game they left their camp and attacked a crossbowman, field cannon, skirmisher, ranger, and even spec ops.
     
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  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    and can be damn annoying
     
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  13. BomberEscort

    BomberEscort Don't be alarmed; this is a kindness Supporter

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    Something about barbarian worker and settler AI would be handy as well. I have noticed odd behavior when trying to run down an AI settler. It will avoid me and even run into territory I cannot access and allow itself to be captured by another AI. Same for workers.
     
  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    This is an annoying area, a specially when they can embark but yes, I played a game today where this happened, however I managed to get the settler.
    So put simple there is absolutely no point in chasing these things unless you can catch them, and the way to catch them is to understand they do not ‘wander’ but typically stand awaiting escort and run away from any threat.
    In my case today I had 1 slinger near it one side of a neutral AI city and a slinger the other side. So I stopped my chasing slinger for a couple of turns until my catcher could get into place. I chased the settler into the AI city. I knew the AI city had a warrior garrison and this seemed enough to keep the settler moving and it popped out of the other side.
    I have chased settlers before who stay in a city because there is nothing there to chase them on. In such a situation put a warrior against the border and they often build a warrior there.
     
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  15. Minou

    Minou King

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    Interesting about how barbarian Settlers/Builders run. I was recently able to catch one by pinning it against some mountains. Not sure if it could not "see" there was a mountain ahead or just had no where else to go. I do recall many times where a barb Builder would just stand there for turn after turn, and your explanation that it is waiting for an escort finally makes that behavior make sense. I know they disappear if they reach a camp, so I was wondering if they specifically head for the camp of the unit that captured them, and what then happens if you destroy that camp.
     
  16. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    I'll post here my fresh example, hope it fits the topic.

    How do you think, what happens after pressing 'Next turn'?


    Spoiler :

    Civs go first, so Hungarian settler tries to escape, but in a risky direction, NW barb sword attacks my scout, SE barb sword crosses the river to go after the Hungarian settler. Will barbs get it?


    Spoiler :

    They did


    Spoiler :

    Happy end


     
  17. Minou

    Minou King

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    Pretty minor thing but this morning I was playing a game where my Settler stumbled upon a barb camp and Scout. I had to settle immediately to avoid the Scout possibly stealing my Settler, but now the camp was in the second ring and sure to start spamming units. I was trying to come up with a way to get enough gold to buy a Warrior for defense when I realized th much easier solution was to just buy the camp tile and destroy the camp. This is when I noticed you do not get any Era Score for clearing a camp by buying the tile. I assume the same is true in cases where you settle adjacent to a camp and it is auto-cleared.
     
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  18. DanQuayle

    DanQuayle Prince

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    When you clear a barbarian camp this way, an additional barbarian unit will also automatically spawn.
     
  19. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    Sometimes two. It's usually an anti-cavalry together with a recon unit. If the anti-cavalry is still in the camp then only the recon unit will spawn. If the camp is empty then two.
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    There is lots I have found out but it takes a lot of testing and observation to ratify things are consistant.
    For example it seems barbs now can no longer see cities on hills from 3 tiles away but I know they used to.... need to check that more but here is some behaviour around a scout after it has spotted a capital and is returning home

    So the scout approaches the camp it was spawned from and the way is blocked by a settler of mine. It approaches but does not attack the settler because of it's orders at this stage prevent it from doing so. Instead it stops one tile short and then the normal raiding party starts to spawn. I have done this test a few times, basically a scout does not have to be adjacent to tell the camp, just by the looks of it 1-2 tiles away. Also when a scout is in explore mode (when it starts) it will not capture builders or settlers nor attack troops. The return to camp seems to be outside of orders that are logged but appears to still be obeying explore mode. The moment it has alerted camp, the scout goes into explore current region mode then explore mode. The barbs spawn are not so polite and will attack, capture and pillage units in view targeting military units over civilian units (higher priority).
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-11-12_12-10-45.png


    What I found interesting is normally a raid on emperor level is 3 warriors and 2 slingers from a camp. However when 2 camps targeting the same civ are gathering his force at the same time they combine their camp numbers so only attack with a single combined raiding force of 5 rather than 2 sets of five.
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-11-12_12-38-53.png


    This was fixed in a patch so you get era score, you do not get the Military Tradition inspiration though.

    EDIT:
    I can also confirm a Raid starts spawning even if the scout's way is blocked by 2 tiles of settlers.
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-11-12_15-11-15.png

    But if it is blocked by military units it does not spawn and the scout goes back and forth between two tiles.
    Spoiler :

    upload_2020-11-12_15-21-1.png



    Sample save where you can see some barb behaviour, a typical base test file I use
     

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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020

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