Any suggestions to play a builder with aggressive neighbours

[gettingfat]

Recently I'm getting a bit tired of early rushing my neighbours. I want some peaceful games. In the past few games I picked Wilem and wanted to enjoy some relatively peaceful games. However, by some bad luck I kept drawing neighbours like Shaka, Montzy, Bourdica, Ragnar etc. Once you let them have enough cities they simply don't do anything (maybe Ragnar is a bit better) except building military units. I built so many units till my research slider goes down to 30-40% and they still outpowered me. Do these people need libraries, courthouses, market, etc or pay any unit maintainence at all? What will you do in this type of situation? I tried sharing same religion, gifting techs etc. It helped a bit but still they'll attack even I have like 10 units per city.

I've been playing monarch level, standard size and speed, hemisphere map.

 

[madscientist]

Recently I'm getting a bit tired of early rushing my neighbours. I want some peaceful games. In the past few games I picked Wilem and wanted to enjoy some relatively peaceful games. However, by some bad luck I kept drawing neighbours like Shaka, Montzy, Bourdica, Ragnar etc. Once you let them have enough cities they simply don't do anything (maybe Ragnar is a bit better) except building military units. I built so many units till my research slider goes down to 30-40% and they still outpowered me. Do these people need libraries, courthouses, market, etc or pay any unit maintainence at all? What will you do in this type of situation? I tried sharing same religion, gifting techs etc. It helped a bit but still they'll attack even I have like 10 units per city.

I've been playing monarch level, standard size and speed, hemisphere map.

My current game I am trying for a cultural win with Louis XIV. I have shaka as friendly since we have the same religion. I gave him any tribute he wanted (he doesn't usually ask for that much). I kept trading him techs to go to war with other AIs, he seams happy with that. He is also turning into an outdated monster, so I hope I can get tanks before he gets rifling and protect myself until I ge tthe third legendary city. There are still a few AIs I can bribe him into attacking.

 

[LiberiGlacialis]

I, uh...rush one. Get the others to like me as best as I can, but get rid of one nearby. Makes things easier in my head.

Or barring that, go turtle, and direct my friends to do my dirty work.

 

[Bhruic]

Basically you are left with one of two options:
1) Take them down before they attack you.
2) Ensure that they are always attacking someone other than you.

It's a given they will be attacking someone. So it's either going to be you or someone else. If it's you, it's better to make the war come on your schedule, not theirs. If you can't pull that off, then you need to make sure they are too busy to attack you.

Bh

 

[Babibo]

I built so many units till my research slider goes down to 30-40% and they still outpowered me.

I've been playing monarch level, standard size and speed, hemisphere map.

Personnally, I'm a warmonger, and paradoxically, I'm always dead last on the power graph until the medieval or modern era. War is costly. As Sun Tzu certainly said, be the attacker, not the defender. When time has come for a war, build a lot of units, very fast (whip & chop a lot), and make sure the war doesn't last too long. If you're good at tactics, the AI should lose 4 units to you while you lose 1, so you don't need to be first on the power graph. Against guys like monty or shaka, who always have lots of units, declare war, wait for their stack(s) to come, and crush them in your territory. Then invade.

As soon as the war is finished go F2 to have a look at the cost of your military, and disband old units and unpromoted units until the unit cost drops to 5 or less. (10 is a maximum) - (and yes sometimes it hurts disbanding those units with 7xp, but... anyway, you won't need these ones for the next war)

 

[Gooblah]

Ah yes, the Art of War (read it, quite interesting.)...
A builder surrounded by aggressive lunatics? Try turtling, yes, but do it a different way: Have 10-15 units per city (depending on the number of enemies around you), and 2 units on all important resources. Drill I/II Longobows can usually shoot anything down after fortification kicks in. Try the Protective trait for more help. Use pet dog Civs, coupled with religious clout, to take enemies down before they hit you. Get Friendly with the most powerful players. Try getting DPs with them. If you can sign, no one will attack till the DP's canceled or a PA is forged.

 

[Handel]

I don't think it is possible to win at higher difficulties without much warmongering. If left at peace the AI has too many advantages over the human player.

 

[Babibo]

Have 10-15 units per city (depending on the number of enemies around you), and 2 units on all important resources.

AI would certainly play this way

 

[Gocho]

When I want to play builder I just make sure I play nice with the crazy ai's and have a big enough stick so when they do come over it's a short affair. Of course this normally pisses me off so I go on the aggressive and that ends any building for awhile

 

[gettingfat]

When I want to play builder I just make sure I play nice with the crazy ai's and have a big enough stick so when they do come over it's a short affair. Of course this normally pisses me off so I go on the aggressive and that ends any building for awhile

That pretty much sums up my experience.

I just hate arm race. Requiring 6 out of my 8 cities to build units non-stop to match the power rating is just a lose-lose situation. Usually the only one who benefits is those Mansa, Gandhi, Wilem etc that do nothing but tech somewhere on another continent.

 

[KMadCandy]

What will you do in this type of situation? I tried sharing same religion, gifting techs etc. It helped a bit but still they'll attack even I have like 10 units per city.

with scary neighbors, i pick a list of friends, and a list of "you're the guy i don't expect to like me much, i'll likely earn a lot of -s with you." the big fat key is, make sure that your friends are friends with each other. say you've been grooming both alex and shaka as pals, and have OB/resource trades going. you could be in trouble if alex is shaka's worst enemy, since he'll come by demanding that you cancel trading with the vile greeks at some point. no matter which way you answer, you'll get a -1 with one or the other.

each leader can have only one worst enemy at a time, and often don't have one at all. if they're cautious or higher with someone, that person isn't a worst enemy. but pay attention to which pals of yours are annoyed or worse with each other. one thing you might try to do is bribe (or use spies in BtS now) shaka into alex's favorite civic. actually that won't work since they're both in the same column but you get the idea ... that would start earning alex +s with shaka. blah blah stuff like that.

I don't think it is possible to win at higher difficulties without much warmongering. If left at peace the AI has too many advantages over the human player.

it is. note that i haven't tried it at high difficulties in BtS yet. i'm still trying out goofy variants at lower levels than i usually play, to get a feel for things. with that disclaimer out of the way, i like playing with their heads and fighting wars is, like, dangerous. so when i'm in that mood i aim for that sort of game, laying the groundwork early. most of my games have been won by what i'm sure you'd call "without much warmongering", and definitely at least half i never started a war myself.

yes i'm an oddball. but it is possible. and challenging, which is part of the fun and why i try to do it *giggle*

yes, even deity. the trick there is play OCC. well, at least it's the only way i can win. you have one fantastic city and you never have to worry about the landgrab, which is a huge part of the reason for the warmongering in the first place . they sprawl out so fast on that level! not having to even think about competing in the (early) race for space (on earth in the BCs) frees me to do other stuff which is a huge change from, well, other people's typical games.

 

[Sisiutil]

I'm finding that the new Big and Small maps in BtS lend themselves to the type of game you're after. I usually end up on a land mass with one other civ, whom I rush and put out of his misery. Then I have a good-sized continent to settle at my leisure with little interference from other civs, who tend to be within reach pre-Astronomy thanks to all those islands.

So if you can stomach one early rush, which is, frankly, usually required in this game anyway, you can probably build to your heart's content on B&S.