arcane xp

[daladinn]

i got into a discussion with some other players a few days ago about how arcane units level up. So, i went looking in the python for the code that i had read a while back , and its not there anymore (must be in xml now). I also remember posting it at one point on the forums and have searched there also , again having no luck.

does anyone have this information?

 

[it-ogo]

If you mean gaining xp I think it should be in dll now. Python interpreter is slow so the general trend is to move as much as possible to dll.

 

[xienwolf]

Were you looking at the units, or the promotions? The XP comes from Channeling, so if you were looking at Adepts/Mages etc, then you wouldn't find it. Hero promotion probably is straight XML since it is just 1 per turn, but might need python for the 100 cap. But the Arcane needs to call a random check, so is quite likely at least Python, if not DLL as it-ogo suggests.

 

[CyberChrist]

Free XP can be generated for units with the Arcane or Channeling I-III promotions and it is handled by the DLL.

The max xp that each promotion can give is listed in the CIV4PromotionInfos.xml file under <iSpellCasterXP> - and it is cumulative with other promotions for the purpose of maximum xp possible (max 1 xp pr turn though).

Up until the max free xp is reached the unit will gain it slower and slower the more xp the unit already has.

 

[daladinn]

ok, what i remember ....

channeling 1 was around a base 10
channeling 2 was i think base 20
channeling 3 was like base 30

this % went down as the unit leveled to a min of 1%,2%,3%

the arcane trait iirc added 20 to the calculation

unholy taint added 20 also...

what i don't recall is the actual order of operations and the actual numbers.

i do know for a fact that there is NO cap on xp generated this way.


all of this may have changed in versions , but i cant find any hard numbers anymore. does anyone have them?

 

[CyberChrist]

I changed mine so I don't have the default numbers, but I think it was Arcane 10, Unholy Taint 20, C.I 20, C.II 30 and C.III 40. Giving a theoretical max of up to 120xp.

Btw, you are wrong in saying there is no cap. Once a unit reaches/passes the cumulative Free XP offered by its promotions then no further Free xp will be forthcomming. At least not with the way the BTS versions are currently coded.

...

While we are on this subject then I am currently tinkering with making spellcasters gain xp from kills made by their Summoned units and other detrimental spells(started as a way to make Barbatos summon Skeletons while Barrows are still around).

It might prove to be an idea worthy of consideration for the official version as well.

 

[Mithrus]

My primary complaint is that playing a non-arcane trait civ, your adepts take FAR too long to level on average. On several occasions, quick game, it took over 100 turns for an adept at 0exp to reach 10 exps to upgrade. I can agree that the arcane trait should give a significant bonus to the chance to get the free exps, but 100 turns on a quick game is way too long. IMO, it should take no more than 50 turns to gain that 10 exps. Whats worse, as Keelyn, I couldn't have my adepts gain enuf exps to upgrade into conjurers, which basically negates the value of the summoning trait for her. Perhaps have the summoning trait also add a small bonus, such that Tebrous who has both arcane and summoning should get uber adepts fairly quickly, but keelyn would also get a smaller bonus. Maybe limit the bonus gain from summoning to adepts, conjurers, and summoners.

 

[Roghar]

better send those adepts into battle! If they learn how to egt their hands dirty they'll be much more effective mages. If a few die, well, they weren't cut out for it anyway

 

[xienwolf]

I think a better temporary tweak might be to have the Arcane and Summoner Traits also reduce the level required for upgrading to Mage/Archmage and Conjurer/Summoner by 1 in their field only. Then you won't need quite as much to make the move up.

 

[CyberChrist]

better send those adepts into battle! If they learn how to egt their hands dirty they'll be much more effective mages. If a few die, well, they weren't cut out for it anyway

Casters should be gaining their experience by waggling their finger(s) in the general direction of hostiles - and not by being forced to engage in melee fights (that they are poorly suited for).

 

[Rod]

Maybe casters should gain xp by casting spells

no but honestly as long as there is no way for autocasting this would be crappy micromanagement.

But what about following idea. Each additional point requires a certain number of turns to pass. This would be based on the decimal.

So from 0-9 it goes 1 turn for each additional point. From 10-19 it will be 2 turns. From 20-29 it will be 3 turns etc.

In this case it takes 59 turn for a inexperienced mage to reach 30 xp. This would be for arcane trait. No arcanes would simply double the amount of turns. So it takes 112 turns for a leader with no arcane trait to get adepts with enough xp to reach Archmage level.

But this would just be fresher level. To be a powerful mage with 50+ XP it takes 154 turns for arcane leaders and 308 turns for leaders with no arcane trait. In this case in anyway you need to send the mage into some easy battles. But at least in his first vulnerable years you can keep him at home studying.

 

[Vehem]

Mages aren't a rush-strategy but they're not a weak strategy either. If you want to accelerate their development, you need to risk them in melee to gain experience (risk => reward). If you're more patient, then they'll train slowly overtime and become much more powerful all by themselves. Archmages *should* be difficult to obtain and by natural means, they can be. It's quite possible however to rush them using some selective spell casting and finishing off the target with melee (dealing the final blow to fireball weakened opponents, very easy to achieve if you bring a radiant guard along, or even a Charm-adept).

My personal favourite is to carry out early-wars using Death I adepts and their attendant skeleton horde (20 or so work very nicely) then have a period of peaceful development of the conquered lands until the adepts are mostly leveled up and become conjurers. A 20 skeleton stack of guards, backed up by 20 spectres a turn is well worth a 100 turn waiting period (until the opponent starts hitting you with Shadows of course...)

 

[Mesix]

If you make arcane xp come too fast, the Sidar will become even more powerful than they already are. Waiting 100 turns or so to have my adepts mature to the level where they can become shades seems fair. I build them in lots of 12 or so, so once they start to mature, I get settled GP every other turn.

 

[Vehem]

If you make arcane xp come too fast, the Sidar will become even more powerful than they already are. Waiting 100 turns or so to have my adepts mature to the level where they can become shades seems fair. I build them in lots of 12 or so, so once they start to mature, I get settled GP every other turn.

It's nearer 200 before you start to get the payoff (normal speed), but it's still a very potent late game strategy if you put it into play early on. Last time around I tried 3 production cities producing an adept-per-turn which had turned into absolute behemoths by around turn 450 (100's of production and science per turn each).

 

[CyberChrist]

Maybe casters should gain xp by casting spells

no but honestly as long as there is no way for autocasting this would be crappy micromanagement.

They should of course only gain xp from casting aggressive attack type spells, so I don't see any added micromanagement coming from such a mechanism.

 

[daladinn]

i was not looking for a debate on how it SHOULD work. i was looking for information on how it DOES work

 

[CyberChrist]

We gave you that information already - now live with the can of worms you opened

 

[daladinn]

umm , if you gave it to me , i think i missed it .... where is it again?

 

[Cuteunit]

I'd be quite pleased if casting hostile spells gave exp.

 

[xienwolf]

Post #5 from Daladinn is the best answer that really exists. You have a base % Chance to gain exp each turn that dwindles as you level up. You can never get more than 1 XP for free in a turn, so a Hero/Mage gains XP at the same rate as a Hero, but continues to have about a 3% chance per turn of gaining more after that point.