Archos and 1.30

[Irenicus_Jon]

I've played a few Monarch games with Corane as leader, here are my first impressions:

Spider progression seems much better now. You don't randomly get spider swarms with 12 strength by turn 20. Baby spiders grow into Giant spiders after some time (feels like it depends on age and some other random factor). I think after a certain nest size (10 maybe?) you can upgrade Giant spiders into Spider swarms. The previous "devour mate" mechanic (where you could get a giant spider to level 4, 5, 6, etc.. and feed it to your capital so next generation spiders are stronger) is gone. Spiders cannot declare nationality now, which is a good thing in my opinion, but it also means you can't wage an all spider war.

Which brings us the new scorpion units. They feel like scouts, but they are not hidden nationality, so you can wage a spider+scorpion bug war. The smallest scorpions (forget the name, small scorpions?) do not upgrade with age (oversight, maybe?), but the bigger ones can be upgraded like the spiders (when the nest size reaches a certain number).

At least when playing with Corane, everything is about the nest size, because it increases spider/scorpion spawn rate and their power. There really is a "please the Mother" feel to the civ now. Also, I found it unnecessary to build anything other then defensive units, since it seems your natural flow of spider/scorpion army can fight your battles for you.

By the way, what modifiers affect the spawn rate in this version? Nest size certainly does, I think number of cities is mentioned somewhere, but any tech/religion/etc?

One more thing, I think a nice addition would be to give the awakened Mother "devour mate" ability that either heals her, gives her haste, temporary boost in strength or transfers a random promotion from the "victim" to the mother. I really liked the idea of devour mate; granted, the previous version was not really working all that well, but bringing it back to the awakened Mother in a different form might be fun.

To sum it up, great version, thanks for all your work on the mod, I really enjoy it (and I don't normally enjoy Civ4).

 

[Valkrionn]

I've played a few Monarch games with Corane as leader, here are my first impressions:

Spider progression seems much better now. You don't randomly get spider swarms with 12 strength by turn 20. Baby spiders grow into Giant spiders after some time (feels like it depends on age and some other random factor). I think after a certain nest size (10 maybe?) you can upgrade Giant spiders into Spider swarms. The previous "devour mate" mechanic (where you could get a giant spider to level 4, 5, 6, etc.. and feed it to your capital so next generation spiders are stronger) is gone. Spiders cannot declare nationality now, which is a good thing in my opinion, but it also means you can't wage an all spider war.

Baby Spiders do not grow into Giant Spiders.

Spider progression is Baby -> Spider -> Giant. There is no Swarm, either.

At a nest size of 12, Spiders can upgrade to Giant Spiders. All bonuses come in multiples of four (start spawning at 4, Spiders at 8, Giant Spiders at 12, Strong promo at 16).

The Devour Mate mechanic is not gone, it just still requires the Giant Spider. Which is now a higher tier spider.

And yes, spiders being unable to declare nationality is intended. Having it as an innate part of the unit does two things:

• No declaring it, so no taking cities with them.
• No Hidden Nationality promotion for people to see when they mouse over the unit. Combined with the Animal flag for them, it is possible to believe it really is an animal unit.

Which brings us the new scorpion units. They feel like scouts, but they are not hidden nationality, so you can wage a spider+scorpion bug war. The smallest scorpions (forget the name, small scorpions?) do not upgrade with age (oversight, maybe?), but the bigger ones can be upgraded like the spiders (when the nest size reaches a certain number).

Scorpion progression is Scorpion -> Scorpion Swarm -> Giant Scorpion

Forgot to allow the Scorpion to upgrade.

Their lack of Hidden Nationality was intentional.

At least when playing with Corane, everything is about the nest size, because it increases spider/scorpion spawn rate and their power. There really is a "please the Mother" feel to the civ now. Also, I found it unnecessary to build anything other then defensive units, since it seems your natural flow of spider/scorpion army can fight your battles for you.

By the way, what modifiers affect the spawn rate in this version? Nest size certainly does, I think number of cities is mentioned somewhere, but any tech/religion/etc?

iSpiderSpawnChance = ((iNestPop + (iNumSpiderCities*2) + (iNumGroves*4)) * fSpiderkin) - iNumSpiders

iScorpionSpawnChance = (iNestPop + (iNumScorpionCities*2) + (iNumNestHills)) - iNumScorpions

Spider spawn is affected by: (Nest Population + (number of Non-Desert cities * 2) + (number of Dark Weald buildings * 4)) * Spiderkin Mod (1.3 for Corane, 1 for others) - Number of Spiders (Babies count as 0.5, Spiders as 1, Giants as 2).

Scorpion spawn is affected by: (Nest Population + (Num Desert Cities * 2) + (number of Hills around the nest)) - Number of Scorpions (same modifiers as spiders)

One more thing, I think a nice addition would be to give the awakened Mother "devour mate" ability that either heals her, gives her haste, temporary boost in strength or transfers a random promotion from the "victim" to the mother. I really liked the idea of devour mate; granted, the previous version was not really working all that well, but bringing it back to the awakened Mother in a different form might be fun.

To sum it up, great version, thanks for all your work on the mod, I really enjoy it (and I don't normally enjoy Civ4).

Will think about that.

 

[Irenicus_Jon]

Baby Spiders do not grow into Giant Spiders.

Spider progression is Baby -> Spider -> Giant. There is no Swarm, either.

At a nest size of 12, Spiders can upgrade to Giant Spiders. All bonuses come in multiples of four (start spawning at 4, Spiders at 8, Giant Spiders at 12, Strong promo at 16).

Hmm, did I mess something up? I might be playing the wrong version (clean install, latest Civ4 patch, 1.30 RiFE) because my baby spiders randomly upgrade to giant spiders.

Can you tell me what's happening in the attached save? A baby spider upgraded to a giant spider pretty much on its own on turn 2.

I also have Fall from Heaven 2, but I'm running Erebus in that game.

 

[Valkrionn]

Hmm, did I mess something up? I might be playing the wrong version (clean install, latest Civ4 patch, 1.30 RiFE) because my baby spiders randomly upgrade to giant spiders.

Can you tell me what's happening in the attached save? A baby spider upgraded to a giant spider pretty much on its own on turn 2.

I also have Fall from Heaven 2, but I'm running Erebus in that game.

I can't load the save, but mouse over the unit it upgraded to. It should say "Spider". The message from the upgrade may be wrong is all.

 

[Irenicus_Jon]

Screenie of the thing.

Is it possible this only happens in my version?

 

[Valkrionn]

Okay, I know what the issue is. Should've realized it.

Basically: Archos spiders are UU's (to handle the HN). I adjusted the stats to match, but not the names.

 

[Irenicus_Jon]

What about the baby spider growing on turn 2? Should that be possible?

 

[Valkrionn]

Possible, but unlikely. It's random.