Are all resources visible from the beginning?

[Leprechaune]

Reading another thread got me thinking about some green glowing rocks I saw on the terrain while the units visible were clearly not modern enough to have discovered (Uranium).

Yes, I've kinda thought that it should be done this way all along... BUT!

You see this black liquid ooozing out of the ground. You don't know what to do with it, but you know it's there, don't ya?

It makes sense for all resources to be visible from the get go so long as EVERYONE can see them.

From looking at screenshots it seems (Maybe since they could just be visible in the editing mode they were using for the screenshots) that they are visible to all before the tech is available. Green glowing rocks in ancient times seems to me an indication.

So, were these screenshots taken using an editor that exposes all resources?

Or are they all visible from the begining to everyone?

 

[1889]

I hope that’s just broccoli. Revealing resources that you don't even know how to use gives away to much information. It takes away the suspense, the need to adjust your plans to meet unforeseen circumstance and disrupts the strategic balance by revealing weakness or strength so early.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It also hurts the minimal sense of realism.

In the game you don't know where it is but you know its important
In reality you know where it is you don't know its important

In both cases a discovery of tech causes a reevaluation of the importance of various areas. Which is the key thing modelled, take away that and you have ridiculous things like the Roman Empire invading South Africa with swordsmen to get the green glowy rocks.

 

[Volstag]

In the game you don't know where it is but you know its important. In reality you know where it is you don't know its important

I'm sure they're far too long in development to incorporate this idea, but what if they put in a "generic resource" marker for resources that you know the geographic location of, but your civ doesn't know it's use/purpose yet?

-V

 

[Slax]

For the most part, real resources must be searched for and discovered in order to be utilized. They should be kept hidden in the game until the tech is learned.

 

[mitsho]

debug version or editor screenshot. Simple as that. Revealing resources would take away all sense for resources to be in the game, they wouldn't be strategic anymore.
But of course, the AI shouldn't know the places as well (it does in civ3, as we can see nearly every game... ).

mfG mitsho

 

[Leprechaune]

Revealing resources would take away all sense for resources to be in the game, they wouldn't be strategic anymore.

Ummm... So just because you see it way before your civ can use it, you won't want to take claim to that resource "Strategicly"?

If anything, it'll start the "Strategic" conflict much earlier in the game rather than leaving it to chance later on.

It would deminish suspence but NOT the strategic value of the resources.

 

[warpstorm]

Considering that I don't recall seeing a single screenshot with Fog of War on it I assume they have a "Show Everything" mode for debugging that they are using for these shots.

 

[Leprechaune]

Considering that I don't recall seeing a single screenshot with Fog of War on it I assume they have a "Show Everything" mode for debugging that they are using for these shots.

Yeah, the only ones I've seen with FoW were the large global ones from a long time ago, and they're too far zoomed out to tell if resources are visible before their time. But I'll pull out my microscope and look anyhow.

 

[DiamanteLouco]

Wow, I hope it really it is this "show everything" mode because having all resources visible in the beggining of the game really takes away a LOT of fun on industrial and modern eras; weren´t for this, someone aiming for a pacific victory would only press spacebar after the expansion phase.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

The 'Show Everything' mode has been my assumption for almost all the ancient age screenshots which show things like uranium. If I am wrong, then I will be incredibly upset about this change-as I truly don't think it makes sense to know the location of a resource until either the time you know how to use it, or at most 1-2 techs prior to that point (for instance, people realised the 'importance' of Uranium around the days of Madame Curie, but didn't fully appreciate its importance until the discovery of nuclear fission).
However, until I hear otherwise I will retain my original assumption!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[rbis4rbb]

Could be Emeralds or precious stones.

 

[Leprechaune]

Could be Emeralds or precious stones.

CivRules "Know-it-all" section lists it as Uranium...

And I too am guessing this is likely an editor mode. I think it's more fun to wait in anticipation as to where the resources may be. But I don't think I'd be as upset as some of you if it were not so... You still wouldn't know where things are untill you've explored areas and/or traded maps.

 

[nicae]

also notice the nation on that screenie is the one people speculated to be mongolia's "civil war" rival.
you acn see now its only another civ with the same shape on the flag.

 

[Tee Kay]

Don't worry. If the Romans discovered uranium but not fission, they won't be able to launch nukes at you

And I hope the bit about the civil war is true, Nicae. It would be nice to fight your own ministers for a change.

PS this is my 50th post. Hooray!

 

[Aks K]

It would be nice i uranium would be revealed when physics is discovered.

Aks K

 

[labguy23]

(for instance, people realised the 'importance' of Uranium around the days of Madame Curie, but didn't fully appreciate its importance until the discovery of nuclear fission).

Actually, you touch on a great idea. Make the resources appear when you reach the right age, not the right tech. That would give you some ability to plan ahead to have oil, rubber, uranium, etc before your actual need for it, but it wouldn't be so far ahead of time to ruin it's strategic importance. Also, it would allow civs to trade the resource without having actual discovered the appropriate tech as well, which would help civs that are slightly behind to catch up if they are lucky with lots of resources.

 

[Leprechaune]

Actually, you touch on a great idea. Make the resources appear when you reach the right age, not the right tech. That would give you some ability to plan ahead to have oil, rubber, uranium, etc before your actual need for it, but it wouldn't be so far ahead of time to ruin it's strategic importance. Also, it would allow civs to trade the resource without having actual discovered the appropriate tech as well, which would help civs that are slightly behind to catch up if they are lucky with lots of resources.

One problem with this possibility is that there are no "AGES" any more...

And, you've just touched on something rather interesting... The new tech tree allows you to dart for a target via a single prerequisite path. That means you could easily leave behind many techs that would allow you to discover resources for quite a long time.

 

[apatheist]

(for instance, people realised the 'importance' of Uranium around the days of Madame Curie, but didn't fully appreciate its importance until the discovery of nuclear fission).

They realized it was radioactive, but that isn't the same thing as realizing its utility. It took until the 1930s or so for scientists to realize that the radioactivity could be harnessed for energy and the special advantages of uranium in that role compared to other radioactive compounds.

It would be nice i uranium would be revealed when physics is discovered.

The "Physics" technology in the game is what we refer to as "Physical Mechanics" today. I don't think you should be able to identify uranium once you discover the principles behind, say, pendulums.

Actually discovering an element like uranium or aluminum is more about chemistry than it is physics, anyway. Being able to see it on the map encompasses both knowing of the thing's existence and also knowing its significance. The discovery is less about the former and much more about the latter. You don't discover that there's a whole lot of shiny stuff over there; you discover that it's Iron and you can do useful things with it. Since the player knows the tech tree, it's not like the game can reveal Iron to you earlier without giving you an advantage. You could model the ignorance within the game, I guess. They could break it into two phases, though I don't know what benefit there would be.

A way that might work would be to always have visible certain unknown deposits of various types, like "metals" or "wild animals" or "black stuff." When you discover Bronze Working, some of those are revealed to be Tin and Copper, which you can then use to make Bronze. When you discover Iron Working, some of the others are discovered to be Iron. Over time, you discover what the other deposits are. Most of them turn out to be resources the game doesn't specifically use, which are useless in the game, (like cadmium or rhenium), so it's not like it's worth claiming them all in advance.

Incidentally, the Wikipedia article on bronze claims that it is stronger than non-steel iron, and that the shift from the Bronze Age to the Iron Age was a result of population and trade shifts more than technological advances.

 

[warpstorm]

Incidentally, the Wikipedia article on bronze claims that it is stronger than non-steel iron, and that the shift from the Bronze Age to the Iron Age was a result of population and trade shifts more than technological advances.

Even before real steel production was discovered, carburized iron was used for weapons. This (admittedly crude) technique essentially gave the iron weapons a thin coating of steel making them much harder than the bronze of the era.