Are F-15s all that bad?

[Geon]

I suppose that's why we import more college attending youths than export. They must be teaching our almost sentient proffesors right?

The US is a superpower only because they have political control over a large, fertile, and productive piece of real estate and weak neighbors.

I think the U.S. should have a long range strategic bomber for unique unit because we put more of an emphasis on it than the USSR. The USSR bombers might be cooler and more high tech, but there probably are not nearly as many of them. In 1986 the US had over 2000 strategic nuclear ALCMs(air launched cruise missiles) whereas the USSR only had 700. One B52 can carry 20 nukes.

 

[Lab Monkey]

Originally posted by ufftyuwe

Thats true, but the USA is only a military superpower...
education is as the rate of Senegal ;-)

You know what they say,

Smart Bombs
Dumb fingers on the triggers...

Oooooh, I'm a b*t*h.

 

[SCPete]

Originally posted by Englishman

- Like the case when some american troops' gps messed up and they didn't know how to use a map and compass!

Have you been under fire? Most likely not so you have no idea why the coordinates were messed up. It could of been read off the map wrong, gotten misunderstood in the radio transmission, written wrong by the radio operator on the other end. Many oportunities for the mistake. I highly doubt it was because they didn't know how to read a map or compass. That is basic knowledge that is drilled into the head of every combat soldier let alone a Special Forces unit.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by SCPete


Have you been under fire? Most likely not so you have no idea why the coordinates were messed up. It could of been read off the map wrong, gotten misunderstood in the radio transmission, written wrong by the radio operator on the other end. Many oportunities for the mistake. I highly doubt it was because they didn't know how to read a map or compass. That is basic knowledge that is drilled into the head of every combat soldier let alone a Special Forces unit.

That is why some of our canadian soldier were killed in afganistan by a super hero american pilot. He droped his bomb on our contingent, whitout beeing able to understand it was a practice field. The best UU for united state is the COWBOY. it realy reflect the u.s. governement attitude.

 

[Moss]

Well the US isn't the only country to make military mistakes, so don't even go down that road.

But back to the UU, I think it should be a B52 that is also able to carry a tatical nuke.

 

[SCPete]

Originally posted by Tassadar


That is why some of our canadian soldier were killed in afganistan by a super hero american pilot. He droped his bomb on our contingent, whitout beeing able to understand it was a practice field. The best UU for united state is the COWBOY. it realy reflect the u.s. governement attitude.

It was an Air National Guard Pilot. What else can I say? Trigger happy Cowboy. I hope you do not all US Military personnel are the same.

I have been biting my tongue hoping not to release the fustration. This is not the forum to do it but I can't stop it so here it is:
Somehow I get the feeling that nobody likes the US because we get invovled in everything. Yet how would they feel if we didn't? They would hate us just the same. Instead of being seen as the school BULLY we would be seen as the SNOB. We can't win for loose. If everyone feels like that about us then why do our allies pressure us into joining these conflicts?

We bend over backwards to give humanitarian aid to numerous countries, disregarding the poor & starving in our own country. What do we get in return from everyone else? A cold shoulder. Now I know not all people are like that but its hard to know for sure when I hear about it all the time.

I would like to think that there are some Kuwaiti's, Saudi's, Isralis's(Scud Missles) out there that are gald we stepped in and stopped Saddam from taking over the mid-east. I would like to think that there are some French, Norwegian, Polish, Egyptian,A few English,Belgium, many others, thankful that we helped stop Hitler. I have personally seen the effects on the poor starving kids of the former Yugoslavia. Thankful we stepped in and halted the constant fighting in the region. (Though I belive we were pressured into starting the peace keeping mission)

The US was a country minding its own business almost oblivious to what was going on outside its borders. Then Germany promises Mexico the return of land if they attacked the US. Why? Thus WWI. Then a few years later, here we are minding our OWN BUSINESS and we are attacked. WHY? thus WWII. Since then we have been a police force to protect the weak & oppressed.

You are all welcome.

 

[Moss]

Very well said.

 

[Rain]

The US was a country minding its own business almost oblivious to what was going on outside its borders. Then Germany promises Mexico the return of land if they attacked the US. Why? Thus WWI. Then a few years later, here we are minding our OWN BUSINESS and we are attacked. WHY? thus WWII. Since then we have been a police force to protect the weak & oppressed.

Hehe nothing like an egocentric view of history

 

[SCPete]

Originally posted by Rain


Hehe nothing like an egocentric view of history

You may be right...but only those that lived during that time know the truth. It may be hard to find the truth when every country has its own view of histroy. Maybe Hitler was a prophet trying to spread the word of God. Only in US history books is he seen as the anti-christ.

Back to the topic. I really don't think any one unit in CIV3 can best represent the US. Unless you count the LAWYER, but that was another CIV game.

 

[alver]

Originally posted by SCPete

You may be right...but only those that lived during that time know the truth. It may be hard to find the truth when every country has its own view of histroy. Maybe Hitler was a prophet trying to spread the word of God. Only in US history books is he seen as the anti-christ.

Hitler isn't viewed as a 'prophet trying to spread the word of God' in any countries I've heard of...

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by SCPete


It was an Air National Guard Pilot. What else can I say? Trigger happy Cowboy. I hope you do not all US Military personnel are the same.

I have been biting my tongue hoping not to release the fustration. This is not the forum to do it but I can't stop it so here it is:
Somehow I get the feeling that nobody likes the US because we get invovled in everything. Yet how would they feel if we didn't? They would hate us just the same. Instead of being seen as the school BULLY we would be seen as the SNOB. We can't win for loose. If everyone feels like that about us then why do our allies pressure us into joining these conflicts?

We bend over backwards to give humanitarian aid to numerous countries, disregarding the poor & starving in our own country. What do we get in return from everyone else? A cold shoulder. Now I know not all people are like that but its hard to know for sure when I hear about it all the time.

I would like to think that there are some Kuwaiti's, Saudi's, Isralis's(Scud Missles) out there that are gald we stepped in and stopped Saddam from taking over the mid-east. I would like to think that there are some French, Norwegian, Polish, Egyptian,A few English,Belgium, many others, thankful that we helped stop Hitler. I have personally seen the effects on the poor starving kids of the former Yugoslavia. Thankful we stepped in and halted the constant fighting in the region. (Though I belive we were pressured into starting the peace keeping mission)

The US was a country minding its own business almost oblivious to what was going on outside its borders. Then Germany promises Mexico the return of land if they attacked the US. Why? Thus WWI. Then a few years later, here we are minding our OWN BUSINESS and we are attacked. WHY? thus WWII. Since then we have been a police force to protect the weak & oppressed.

You are all welcome.

U.S ask other country for support in afganistan, canadian didnt want to get involve into this conflict but a very strong pressure was put on us( you are with us or against us) so we had no choice.
About Saddam Hussein, if i remember well , he was a U.S. puppet into the iran-irak war. So why suddendly he turn agaisnt you? Maybe he just got use to buy u.s. weapon, wage war to iran and left alone after the end of war. Saddam Hussein was on CIA payroll for a long time,Why?

About your support in ww2, that was great, Roosvelt was a very great leader and i admire him. But after he died, the militaro-industrial lobby toke control of the u.s. governement and Roosevelt's politic was throw away and the world fall into a cold war( corean war, vietnam war) . Kennedy want to stop that but he got kill by those warmonger' buisnessman.
About humanitary help, you spent about a thousand time more in bombardement than help, just stop to suck other country's natural ressource and they wont need help.
I hope Bush will be kick off from power because he is a very scarry leader. He want weapon in space, he want military base evrywhere in the world, he want to ell us what to do, look like more a dictature than a democraty.

 

[Tassadar]

I know it look like off topics but it is to support my idea that the COWBOY is the best U.U. for united state. A cowboy solve conflict with gun, a cowboy is always ready to dictate his personal view with gun, a cowboy is self sufficient law.
U.S. cowboy should replace cavalry.
And remember what bush said about ben laden, dead or alive, like in farwest time.

 

[SCPete]

Canada did not have to send troops to Afganistan. Nobody had too, we can take care of it ourselves if we had to. What Bush wanted was a united front against terrorism. That means any country with knowledge or harboring of terrorist organizations should come forward or you will be considered a terrorist country and thus not on OUR side (non -terrorist).

Just what countries do we suck natural resources from? Last I check oil was bought from the mid east not stolen. Come to think of it Venezula is the US biggest importer of Oil. We have no problems with them do we? Just goes to show how much interest we have in the mid-east is actually becasue of the oil.

Bush is not the first US President who wanted a weapon system in space. I don't know what you have been hearing but it is not a "Weapon" system. It is a "Defense" system to protect against ICBMs...You know the SDI defense or now called the Stratigic Missile Defense in CIV3. This could also be used to help also defend other countries in the future, also to protect earth against "Dooms Day" asteroids.

 

[Creepster]

I like the idea of a true nuclear powered sub as the UU for America. The US started the nuclear Navy before any other country. The US has always had a larger fleet of nuclear submarines than any one else (except for mayby a few years, I am unsure about the late 70's early 80's). No other country has a submarine that is even close to what the modern subs can do. Change the values on the nuclear sub to give it a better attack and movement range. Allow for some improved espionage with the sub (intelligence gathering on all coasts for example) and you get a much better UU.

One of the subs strongest points is that most people are very unaware of just what they are capable of. They are still thought of how they were used in WW2. The role and impact of the nuclear sub has changed significantly in the past 60 years.

PS I do like the idea of the cowboy also, but it is very close to the Cossack and I like the idea of varying UU's.

 

[Tassadar]

Originally posted by SCPete


Bush is not the first US President who wanted a weapon system in space. I don't know what you have been hearing but it is not a "Weapon" system. It is a "Defense" system to protect against ICBMs...You know the SDI defense or now called the Stratigic Missile Defense in CIV3. This could also be used to help also defend other countries in the future, also to protect earth against "Dooms Day" asteroids.

I dont agree with you, SDI is either missile or laser. so missiles can be directed to icbm or any other target, even another mistake and kaboum it fell on our head. Laser can be directed to any other target too.
Even an hydrogen thermonuclear bomb wont do anything against a doosday asteroid. in a movie it work not in real life.

 

[SCPete]

Originally posted by Tassadar


I dont agree with you, SDI is either missile or laser. so missiles can be directed to icbm or any other target, even another mistake and kaboum it fell on our head. Laser can be directed to any other target too.
Even an hydrogen thermonuclear bomb wont do anything against a doosday asteroid. in a movie it work not in real life.

First of all to place missiles in space and then use them for targets on earth would be a total waste of resources. Why take the time and money to launch a shuttle to unload Missiles at an orbiting platform for future use against Earth based targets when you can dispatch a couple of Stealth Bombers?

Lasers, you may a valid argument. If it would be used against land based targets it would be in defense of the US. I must ask one question. Why would the US want to start a conflict? The US is not what CIV3 represent us to be. We are for the most part a pacive nation. We want peace and peace for other nations. If you are living in China or Russia right now wouldn't you want a SDI to shoot down the Nukes that Pakistan and India may fire at each other?

About the doomsday asteroid. What many people fail to realize is that you can't blow one up. That would mean instead of 1 asteroid heading for earth you would have 30-40+ smaller asteroids heading for earth which would cause as much devastation. The plan is to nick it and hope to change its trajectory so that it will pass by earth.

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by SCPete


First of all to place missiles in space and then use them for targets on earth would be a total waste of resources. Why take the time and money to launch a shuttle to unload Missiles at an orbiting platform for future use against Earth based targets when you can dispatch a couple of Stealth Bombers?

Lasers, you may a valid argument. If it would be used against land based targets it would be in defense of the US. I must ask one question. Why would the US want to start a conflict? The US is not what CIV3 represent us to be. We are for the most part a pacive nation. We want peace and peace for other nations. If you are living in China or Russia right now wouldn't you want a SDI to shoot down the Nukes that Pakistan and India may fire at each other?

About the doomsday asteroid. What many people fail to realize is that you can't blow one up. That would mean instead of 1 asteroid heading for earth you would have 30-40+ smaller asteroids heading for earth which would cause as much devastation. The plan is to nick it and hope to change its trajectory so that it will pass by earth.

To clarify on the SDI idea. Intercept missiles can be based either on earth on in space. However, these are intercept type missiles, they would be worthless against targets other than other missiles. The idea of placing nuclear bombs on space based platforms is a different type of system. The idea here is to avoid launch phase intercept of missiles or interdiction of the bombers. The space platform would release the warheads at their hardest to intercept stage (no missile body, multiple targtes, and decoys deployed). The laser is actually often conceived as a ground based laser (save the cost of hefting it into space and make it easier to maintain). And then mirror satelites would direct the laser to its target.

On the asteroid interdiction you are right on. Unless you redirect the asteroid the earth will still suffer from the "nuclear winter" even if you some how managed to turn it to dust.

 

[JohnnyReb]

What you people are thinking of Cowboys...hehe .

Forget Hollywood folks, cowboys were ranchers, cattle herders, etc. And you can also forget the myth of the Old West being this free for all shoot-out all the time. Dodge City had in its most 'murderous' year a grand total of either 4 or 6 murders (Deadwood, SD was either 4 or 6 too, I always get the two mixed up).

Yes, there were occasional outbursts of violent 'gang' warfare between factions, but it was the exception and not the rule. I imagine you can point to any nation and find some rare occasion where violence ran amuck for a few weeks/months in a particular area.

So anyway, let us deep-six the idea of a Cowbow UU, eh?

 

[ApocalypseKurtz]

Yeah, F-15s are pretty bad compared with most UU. But really, all UUs aren't as great as they seem. The most effective ones seem to be the early ancient age ones, if you are a militaristic player trying to conquer early on. I like the cossack but +1 defense for a offensive unit doesnt help much. Germany's panzer can only move faster and is useless once modern armors roll around.

 

[Sir Durfey]

In my own humble opinion, the best UU for America is a Super-Carrier, like the Nimitz Class's, can carry up to 6 planes, armed with Aegis-like radar. Also I do not think that F-15's are that bad, but I agree they are not a very good choice as an UU. Russian Sukhoi-27's are much better planes for example, but it's not a good UU either. Maybe a Flying Fortress like B-29 of WWII, it was those heavy bombers which levelled German Industy. And, people, please remember that we are here for fun.

Live Long and Prosper.