Are Unique Improvements Underpowered?

[CaiusDrewart]

There's been a little bit of discussion of this in the tier list thread, but I thought it deserved a thread of its own. Setting aside the Indian Stepwell (which is totally different), the other UIs follow a similar pattern:

Mission (Spain): +1 Faith. +2 Faith if on a different continent. +1 Science if next to a campus.

Sphinx (Egypt): +1 Faith and +1 Culture. +2 Culture if next to a wonder. Cannot be built next to a sphinx.

Ziggurat (Sumeria): +2 Science. +1 Culture if next to a river. Cannot be built upon hills.

Chateau (France): +1 Culture. +2 Culture if next a wonder. +1 Gold if next to a luxury resource. Can only be built adjacent to rivers.

Great Wall (China): +1 Culture and +1 Gold for each adjacent Great Wall segment. Must be built in a line on the empire's border.

Is it just me or are pretty much all of these quite bad? The yields just seem very modest compared to normal tile improvements. In the early game it's tough to pass on all-important production and food for very small quantities of culture/faith/science/gold, and in the late game normal improvements seem clearly more powerful (Mines and Lumber Mills hit +3 production, Farms can easily top +3 food with adjacency bonuses.) Not to mention that a lot of these improvements are very picky about where they can be built. And none of them offer adjacency bonuses to nearby districts (unlike Mines).

And of course, unlike in past games, these all cost precious Builder charges.

It seems to me like Civs with unique districts are looking really good, and Civs with unique improvements got the short end of the stick. But maybe I'm missing something, and these are more powerful than they appear?

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

No they are not bad.

It seems to me like Civs with unique districts are looking really good, and Civs with unique improvements got the short end of the stick. But maybe I'm missing something, and these are more powerful than they appear?

This is so worng, take a deeper look into the stuff and you will understand

 

[KrikkitTwo]

mission also gets +2 science with Cultural Heritage
(and I thought the Sphinx was +2 faith next to wonder, and Chateau was +2 gold if next to luxury)

The key is normal tiles improvements can't give you culture/faith/gold/science

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

All culture improvement also start giving tourism after flight.

 

[I_pity_the_fool]

All culture improvement also start giving tourism after flight.

Do you have to work them to get the benefit?

 

[CornPlanter]

I honestly don't see how this is a tip or a strategy. Wouldn't this fit better in general discussions forum?

 

[Furycrab]

The more I learn about how to use Unique districts, the more I like em. Russia is quickly getting in my top 5 civs because not only do you have this ridiculously cheap Holy site but you have the land to just plant them early (Even if you don't build them right away) which I learn is not only good but somewhat optimal.

However, I'm struggling a little with the improvements like the OP.

China... I feel like I never find the time to really build them. Early I want all those builder charges to get my eurekas or inspiration (6 farms and 3 mines isn't always easy to get if you start with a bunch of pastures and quarries you want to improve) or trying to get a Wonder, I could skip a wonder to get a wall going I guess, but land constraints in the early game are real. 3 charges to potentially create a 2 culture 2 gold tile (and 2, 1 culture 1 gold) seems a bit wasteful but I haven't messed around with it too much. That said... The rest of China bonuses feel good even if you don't build a big wall so... there's that?

Sumeria... I just played them in a multiplayer game with some AI with a friend... I just built war-carts and rolled around plowing barbs camps as they spawned, and later upgraded them all to knights and kept doing more damage. That was so good that I wasn't really finding time to stop making them and make extra builders.

I'm sure I'm missing something... Mostly because more than half my games right now are trying to figure out early game optimizations but I've been going thru my games again now that I know that Districts don't go up in cost if you plant them down early. The fact that unique districts are half off and don't count against the cap is skewing results.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Haven't played with them yet. Can you build them in a forest/jungle, or does it remove the woods?

 

[Arent11]

There's been a little bit of discussion of this in the tier list thread, but I thought it deserved a thread of its own. Setting aside the Indian Stepwell (which is totally different), the other UIs follow a similar pattern:

Mission (Spain): +1 Faith. +2 Faith if on a different continent. +1 Science if next to a campus.

Sphinx (Egypt): +1 Faith and +1 Culture. +2 Culture if next to a wonder. Cannot be built next to a sphinx.

Ziggurat (Sumeria): +2 Science. +1 Culture if next to a river. Cannot be built upon hills.

Chateau (France): +1 Culture. +2 Culture if next a wonder. +1 Gold if next to a luxury resource. Can only be built adjacent to rivers.

Great Wall (China): +1 Culture and +1 Gold for each adjacent Great Wall segment. Must be built in a line on the empire's border.

Is it just me or are pretty much all of these quite bad?

I have found a certain use for them because early game you can't build all districts in a city. So, if I build a ~single ziggurat per city, it allows me to concentrate on industrial zones & commercial hubs instead of campus & theatre districts. But I'm not sure whether that is their *intended* use.

 

[DonPato]

India's improvement is incredible when used correctly. Provides food comparable or even better than farms when adjacent to farms plus faith plus housing.

 

[Machiavelli24]

It seems to me like Civs with unique districts are looking really good, and Civs with unique improvements got the short end of the stick. But maybe I'm missing something, and these are more powerful than they appear?

It sounds like you are undervaluing unique improvements. Builders are much cheaper than districts, especially if you are using the
Feudalism Wave tactic.

Unique improvements that provide Faith let you accumulate the game winning mass of Missionaries and Apostles faster when going for Religious Victory. If you're going Domination they fuel Faith-purchase based attacks. The drip of Faith can also be used to get a National Park in the mid game without having to commit your district slots to Holy Sites.

Unique improvements that provide Culture let you access critical Civics faster without having to build the generally lackluster Theater Districts (with have poor adjacency and low Culture yield without Great Works). The improvements also provide the cheapest way to generate more tourism when going for Culture Victory. Wonders or Projects to get Great Works require much more production than Builders.

Sumeria's Ziggurat can allow them to keep reasonable pace on Science without committing to building Campuses. India's step well essentially lets you access Feudalism's food boost from the start of the game while making it much easier to meet housing thresholds without building anything past a Granary. Granaries are cheap but the next options past that are much more expensive: Aqueduct & Limes powered Monarchy walls.

 

[Arent11]

Unique improvements that provide Culture let you access critical Civics faster without having to build the generally lackluster Theater Districts (with have poor adjacency and low Culture yield without Great Works). The improvements also provide the cheapest way to generate more tourism when going for Culture Victory. Wonders or Projects to get Great Works require much more production than Builders.

Sumeria's Ziggurat can allow them to keep reasonable pace on Science without committing to building Campuses.

How many are you building per city? I'm building exactly one.

 

[Victoria]

With China, build a city on grassland which has no production, bang a wall all around it and 3 wall spokes coming off. This will provide +15 gold and +15 culture once the city is at 6 pop and castles havs been discovered. Also 15 tourism later.
That is not including population bonuses. It is a great little culture/gold popper.

 

[Abraxis]

I feel like I never find the time to really build them. Early I want all those builder charges to get my eurekas or inspiration

You are over-valuing eurekas and inspirations. What's better? A 50% discount of a 50 cost unlock, or 2 of that yield per turn indefinitely? It would only take 13 turns before it would start to net you greater returns.

I wouldn't say these improvements are overpowered, but they do definitely have their uses, particularly where they allow you to delay certain developments early game in favor of anything else. Sumeria for example can easily affords to delay setting up campuses in favor of expanding and creating a huge army to take advantage of his other bonuses. They're pretty straight forward.

I think the only enigma to me out of the special improvement civs is Egypt. I love them, but the more I play the less I feel I understand about them. I just keep playing 70 turn games with them over and over trying to figure out how best to take advantage of their abilities. The Sphinxes especially are very weird and I still can't decide if they're a red herring or a linchpin.

 

[Forster]

Myrianna (sp?) archers are made for conquering nearby civs and city states.

 

[Abraxis]

I never would have thought of using military units to conquer things

 

[Calouste]

Tiles without resources or hills suck until Feudalism, and if you have only one or two together, they suck the whole game. A farm gives 1 food and 1/2 housing, and that's a lot less than the UIs. Also note that almost every UI has a requirement for or gets a bonus from a tile that is not a farm, so it's not like you're going to build them in your bread basket region anyway. And at one point your city is going to hit its housing cap and you want switch your citizens to work something more productive than a farm.

Unless you have some nice adjacency bonuses or at least 3 envoys with an appropriate city state, holy sites, campuses and theatre districts cost a lot of cogs (a lot more than one builder charge) and don't really produce much.

And they're improvements, you can always pave them over with a district, or a different improvement when builder charges are more abundant later in the game.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Regarding Egypt, I made a thread asking for strategies for them, which you might find helpful. It gave a lot of insight and showed that Egypt can be very versatile. Sphinxes, in particular, help in getting the key civics and faith-buy things.