Argh! AI forward settled on me again!

[kamikazees]

How do you handle the AI forward settling on you, especially in the early game? I've been playing at immortal level and would like to move to diety, but this issue is coming up a lot. It's not uncommon at immortal to have an AI drop a city within 4 or 5 tiles of your cap around T30.

On diety and it seems even worse, with the AI dropping cities on T7 right at my cap:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Sure, in the first example Ramses does not have a lot of room for expansion. But he ignores the east spot with marble, wheat and fish (where I saw his scout) to drop it 5 tiles from my cap... in the desert. Seriously!?

And in the second, Harold's settler follows his scout, finds Athens and plops a city down behind it, 5 tiles from my cap. And it's in a really defensible spot.

I can't really work on growth if I DoW them early (although admittedly it's easier with Greece ), and I don't have much to gain if I just take and raze the junk cities they plop next to me. Leaving them unchecked allows the cities to grow and expand, however, which is probably worse in the long run.

Is this a lose/lose situation? What do you do?

 

[civ54lyfe]

i know that Egypt especially likes to do this. in your case, you knew the area where the AI would have forwarded on you beforehand, because there wasn't much else. i would have mustered the two or three units that i had and stalked that area and try to murder that settler.

 

[joncnunn]

#1: Do not share your embassy with the AI on Immortal+ until you have finished building your first ring cities or else you are absolutely positive that AI has already via its scout seen every single tile within your capital's visibility anyway.

#2: If you are going to be tardy founding your cities, build some unit early and have it pre positioned to capture any settlers straying near your planned first ring cities. DOW and get a free worker right before it would have founded the city. (Chances are the city would be misplaced.)

 

[sendos]

#1: Do not share your embassy with the AI on Immortal+ until you have finished building your first ring cities or else you are absolutely positive that AI has already via its scout seen every single tile within your capital's visibility anyway.

#2: If you are going to be tardy founding your cities, build some unit early and have it pre positioned to capture any settlers straying near your planned first ring cities. DOW and get a free worker right before it would have founded the city. (Chances are the city would be misplaced.)

Number 1: I second this. Only issue with number 2 is that AI is usually smart enough to give their settlers an escort. You might need 2-3 units to take out the escort quickly otherwise they'll settle.

If you think that's irritating, I've had 2 emperor games where AI forward settles where I wanted to expand early in the game, and their capital was quite far away. One thing is more certain: gotta start expanding ASAP.

On a slightly unrelated note, with deity, what additional unit(s) does the AI get at the start of the game? For King, I know it's 1 scout. For emperor, it's 1 worker. According to CFC gossip, for immortal, it's 1 settler. But what about deity? I seem to be guessing it's 1 warrior, 1 archer or 1 more settler.

 

[Browd]

On Immortal, AI starts with 1 worker, 2 defense units (warriors) and 1 explore unit (scout).

On Deity, add 1 settler and 1 more worker.

 

[civ54lyfe]

there's one more option (Deity not applicable, probably), and ofc it's the most desperate option..

if the AI forwards on you and yet you can circumnavigate that city once you have 3 survivable units, DoW and pillage any improved tiles on his cap, then send them back to your cap and just survive and play until he offers peace and maybe he'll just give you that city. who knows.

 

[kamikazees]

I get that the best thing is to DoW and prevent it, but that's pretty impossible to do on turn 7. Maybe if I just happened to have my scout and warrior together.

So if it can't be prevented, do you DoW immediately and pester while you build up, or build up and then DoW?

Does the AI "know" forward settling provokes a war, like when it taunts or denounces you?

 

[civ54lyfe]

the AI might "know" that forwarding on you would at least prompt you to ask them not to settle cities near you. so if you asked Egypt after they forwarded you, maybe from Egypt's "console" they'd see a red modifier from your civ (coveted lands maybe?)? you can also ask Egypt not to do this after you meet them and prior to them forwarding you, but in my games i've seen that AI normally ignores this request, even if they agree to it.

in a King game, America forwarded on me twice, with Boston and Philly taking up my entire backyard. I DoW'ed him, stole a Worker from Philly, pillaged 2 Philly tiles, brought my 2 Archers to capitol, upgraded them to CB's, went with them and a Warrior to Philly, fought a Warrior but the Warrior retreated into Philly, circumnavigated Philly to Boston, pillaged 3 tiles, took everybody back home, and 3 turns later America offered me Philly. America did not have CB technology so maybe that scared him, idk. also, half of the tiles that i pillaged were lux.

needless to say (in my case) war had to happen. in your case it looks even more necessary. but you can't take a city, i would just be thinking about going for rampant pillaging and bullying him to give the city up.

 

[budweiser]

I really hope this is something they are going to fix.

 

[Light Cleric]

My issue isn't that the settle on you but that they pick absolutely crap locations to do so. He has no business putting Memphis in that garbage spot.

 

[civ54lyfe]

yeah but look at how that spot pretty much screws the one good area to the SW of his cap. just totally gross, Egypt is notorious for this. worst is prolly Shoshone though, who just silly-explodes.

 

[Moriarte]

On Immortal, AI starts with 1 worker, 2 defense units (warriors) and 1 explore unit (scout).

On Deity, add 1 settler and 1 more worker.

Add one more warrior for Deity.

 

[Browd]

Sorry, my bad. Immortal AI starts with 3 warriors, not 2 (plus a scout and worker). Step up to Deity is just an additional worker and settler.

 

[FrostK]

on screen with egypt, u should just go archer-rush and take that tasty salt-thebes probably with some wonder.

 

[VisageTDI]

Sorry, my bad. Immortal AI starts with 3 warriors, not 2 (plus a scout and worker). Step up to Deity is just an additional worker and settler.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ5/difficulties

Immortal: 2 Warriors, 1 Scout, 1 Worker, no extra Settler
Diety: 2 Warriors, 1 Scout, 2 Workers, 1 extra Settler

 

[sendos]

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ5/difficulties

Immortal: 2 Warriors, 1 Scout, 1 Worker, no extra Settler
Diety: 2 Warriors, 1 Scout, 2 Workers, 1 extra Settler

Thanks for answers but I feel a bit guilty for leading topic off a little, even though the issue is very common at higher levels.

 

[VisageTDI]

Don't worry too much about it, there are countless topics about AI forward settling players already.

Ontopic: The issue is more of their pick of locations where they settle on. Egypt wanted to secure they'll have 2 expansions so they forward settled, but on weird spot. Sure, there's a CS to the east and he couldn't settle on hill-mountain-river spot cause of distance to it, but he'll still get most river tiles from where he settled.
It's not like players don't forward settle AI

 

[Xiao Xiong]

Fortify units in your territory on the border. Declare war. Let the AI destroy its entire army trying to kill them. Take the cash settlement. Build a real army with the cash. Declare war. Take the cities.

Forward settling is the AI's way of saying it wants to help you level up a bunch of units and give you a lot of money.

 

[sendos]

Forward settling is the AI's way of saying it wants to help you level up a bunch of units and give you a lot of money.

Or a very forceful way of AI saying to you "we covet lands you own".

 

[Browd]

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ5/difficulties

Immortal: 2 Warriors, 1 Scout, 1 Worker, no extra Settler
Diety: 2 Warriors, 1 Scout, 2 Workers, 1 extra Settler

The difficulties chart is often misinterpreted. It shows what the AI gets in addition to the basic warrior that every civ gets (including the human player). Attached are turn 0 screenies of Prince, Immortal and Deity starts.

The difficulties chart shows no starting unit advantage for the Prince AI, but, as the Prince screenie shows, the AI starts with the same initial warrior as the human player. The Immortal screenie shows the starting settler, worker, scout and 3 warriors (1 warrior as default and 2 warriors from difficulty handicap). The Deity screenie shows the Immortal units plus another settler and worker.