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Discussion in 'Strategy Section' started by Funak, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Please, define variety. I pretty much can change my strategy at any moment. I can go for religions or ignore them, I can try lots of culture and policies or just go for technology or a mix. I can turtle with 3 cities or expand to my neighbours door. I can go for my enemies cities or just raid them. I may remove every barb camp or let them come. I can spend my great people or let them improve tiles, any time.

    Tell us what do you feel not having variety. Maybe there is, but you cannot see it.
     
  2. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    That was a change to give the mod more variety, precisely. If you want wonders, you need to balance techs and culture, but focus a little more on culture. Also, Tradition is better for wonder building. To improve your culture: explorers (culture goody hut), monuments, a little faith so to get a pantheon that gives culture, improve farms so you can have a writer specialist (with Tradition) or if you get lucky and have luxuries that give culture, take them.

    But don't worry if you can't get wonders, a good infrastructure will compensate. Progress players don't bother with wonders a lot. Wonders are really good, but you may miss some of them competing, therefore your infrastructure will suffer.

    I really find the three early policy trees as completely different gameplays. After that, going for diplomacy, religion or tourism also feels different (that's 9 different games until renaissance). For next policies you are already set for some victory type, so it doesn't really alter your game, it only continues on what you were already doing.
    But to make it different, you need to alter the way you are playing them, the mod allows any approach to be a successful one.
     
  3. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Could you guys please get your bickering out of my AMA thread?
     
  4. Arachnodork

    Arachnodork Chieftain

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    I have one. For a non domination victory, how do you balance infrastructure with military production? I've found that you really can't afford to neglect military to the extent you were able to in vanilla, so I've yet to hit on a good balance I think.
     
  5. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    This is not an easy question at all.

    Civ5 in general follows the trend of "as little as you can get away with" when it comes defense. Sometimes that means just a couple of units standing in chokepoints, sometimes that means lines after lines of units.
    I've gotten away with not having any military units at all for the better part of a game, but those situations are really rare.

    The way I see it, is that either you keep a large enough army around to deter other civs from actually attacking you, or you keep a much smaller army around with the possibility of quickly reinforcing it. As you might imagine, the second choice is a lot more risky, and is probably going to get you into more wars, but if you don't get attacked, that is the clear winner.
    When to employ which strategy is highly dependent on map-type, terrain and neighbors. You can pretty much not defend your cities from naval attacks unless you have a fleet on standby for example, mostly because of how open the ocean is and how fast ships move.


    Another thing that I feel necessary to bring up is that conquest is really a useful tool for any victory-condition, not just Domination. I very rarely play a game that without conquering at least a few cities, partly because my greedy playstyle makes my neighbors attack me, and getting attacked usually triggers me enough to make me take at least a few of their cities.


    Sorry I can't be more clear, CPP is designed to be pretty open, meaning there are multiple ways of playing.
     
  6. Arachnodork

    Arachnodork Chieftain

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    That answer was great! I feel like I can still learn a few positioning tricks and overall strategy to make the first more viable, but I've been trying the second, just by having a city that is able to pump out a new unit every so often. I should probably take your last point to heart, considering my propensity to somehow spawn right next to someone who loves running down the authority tree.
     
  7. Orlanduke

    Orlanduke Chieftain

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    Whoops here we go, not sure if double posting is okay or not, feel free to spray me with water if I'm in the wrong here.

    Something I've been encountering more and more as I dip my feet more into military-focused civs, the natural choice for me seems to be Authority. But, often I'll be beat to many of the encampments by the AI, who simply have too many units to contend with. It's really annoying I gotta say, and I often feel like I'm better off taking Tradition/Progress instead. No encampments = No culture. How do you suggest dealing with this?
     
  8. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I'm nowhere near being an expert on Authority-starts, I usually go for progress because I value expansion and infrastructure. That being said after the remake of the Authority-tree, it probably is just as valid for that kind of gameplay as progress is. That was not really an answer to your question however.

    I can usually get away with clearing 4 or so (ancient/classical era) barb-camps per game even when going for progress, the trick is to actually have a few warriors on standby, and just send all of them as soon as you spot one. The AI is pretty good at clearing camps, but assuming the camp spawns fairly close to you, you should be able to beat them there. Choosing which camps to go for is fairly important as well, ones in obscure locations like mountain-passes usually stay up longer.
    That being said as authority you see camps as soon as they spawn, so you should really have a headstart in getting to them. This all of course varies from game to game, making the culture from clearing camps pretty unreliable as a whole.

    There are however alternatives for getting culture as Authority, I personally always go for the +2 culture in cities with a garrison policy first for example, no need to culturally cripple yourself unnecessarily.
    You can also declare war on a neighbor or a city-state and just beat up their units for some culture.


    Sorry if this wasn't the answer you were looking for, once again I'm not really an expert on Authority, as I don't like being tied down into a warmonger playstyle.
     
  9. skepticon

    skepticon Chieftain

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    I take 2 policies in Tradition before moving to Authority. It works so much better.
     
  10. hokath

    hokath King

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    I almost always do this with Authority, and I think it's crucial on a map where you can't be guaranteed camps. However, watch out for the pesky city states suddenly spawning loads of reinforcements; don't overextend.
     
  11. Orlanduke

    Orlanduke Chieftain

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    I've thought of trying that before, my only gripe is that I find early (pre-siege) wars to be terribly bogged down, if you get what I'm saying. It can take a bit to actually kill units depending on what your terrain is like, if you can surround them or not, etc. I suppose City-State wars are much cleaner, but I sort of hang myself in the sense that I never feel right cheesing city-state wars by doing the old Declare-Attack-Make Peace, Declare-Attack-Make Peace tactic, so I avoid using it.

    No worries, we're about the same there. I much prefer having those nice flat bonuses early on, so I don't have to play catch-up later on.
     
  12. hokath

    hokath King

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    To make this more acceptable, it was change such that if you do this you don't get quests from that city-state for some length of time.
     
  13. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I really don't see this problem actually, assuming you pick a target with a decent army he is going to throw everything he's got at you. Naturally I'm not telling you to try and pick swordsmen off with archers, that wouldn't work. I'm telling you to use horse-units and such to flank and destroy units.

    I don't think you can attack and make peace with city-states on the same turn anymore, not really sure as I never do that, but I think Gazebo fixed it. Either way if you declare war on a city-state multiple times you get huge diplomatic penalties with all remaining city-states, so I wouldn't do it even if it worked.
     
  14. Jdoug312

    Jdoug312 Warlord

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    How's your empire set up? Do you, for example, dedicate a city to generating GP, a city for making your troops, a city with culture focus, etc?
     
  15. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Not really, I usually try to get as much production capability as possible in all cities and giving me the ability to just flip them over to full production and throw a lot of hammers into a world congress-project or into supporting a war with an army.

    That being said there is usually some form of unintentional specialization, some cities are going to be a lot better than other cities, meaning get ahead in buildings built early and and then stay ahead because buildings like to snowball. These cities usually end up throwing extra hammers into wonders, diplomat units, advanced settlers and military units.
    I also usually end up with a city or two that is settled for heavy coastal-play, coast being as good as it is I usually end up dumping most of my guilds in those cities, both because they usually grow fast enough to need more specialists to work and because the heavy food from coastal tiles makes it easier to support those specialists.
    If I don't have cities like that I usually just end up spreading my guilds around, usually avoiding placing guilds in my capital.


    So to answer your question, I usually end up with specialized cities to some degree, but I don't really set them up or do it intentionally, it just happens.
     
  16. Jdoug312

    Jdoug312 Warlord

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    Ah, I see, thanks!
     
  17. skepticon

    skepticon Chieftain

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    How come? Is this also true if you play Tradition or Progress?
     
  18. kvn_m

    kvn_m Chieftain

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    I know that the early game techs depend on what kind of resources you have around you. That said, a lot of resources only get revealed after they are researched.

    Is beelining a good idea to the more advanced tech right away? For instance, if you research the tech that reveals horses, do you beeline straight so you can use horseman right away?

    I find getting range +1 archers kind of almost make/break the game usually. That makes it feel like researching trapping is actually quite a high priority.

    Any general plans for early game?
     
  19. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I'm more likely to place guilds in my capital if I play tradition, but in general I usually end up building all wonders/national wonders and such in my capital, meaning it usually falls behind on buildings without having an extra 6 cultural specialist to work, not to mention 3 extra buildings to build.

    That being said if you go Tradition into Aesthetics, you should probably build your guilds in the capital, but I tend to play more Progress than tradition.


    Completely missed your post :D

    In general, if you're in the forest/tundra, go for trapping, as there is usually deer around, on non-forest non jungle, your safest bet is Animal husbandry, it could be a total miss as flatlands could also mean stone or bison, this is assuming that you're not on the coast, if you are on the coast you could just as well have Fish. If you have 2 or 3 wheat tiles, you probably don't have any other bonus resources, and you can instead go for like the wheel or something like that. In heavy jungle you're most likely to have bananas. In general, going for sailing or Calendar first is a poor idea, they are too heavy of a tech-investment unless you know for sure that you have those resources near you, which you only do if you have researched all other bonus-resource techs and found nothing. You usually want Animal Husbandry and possibly Bronzeworking by the time you finish your first settler, so you're not in the dark with regards to strategic resources when making your settling choice.

    I usually don't build that many archers, I find warriors decent enough at clearing out barbs, if I have trapping available I might pick up an archer or two, but I don't go out of my way to get them, but then I usually don't reach +1 range with them, 4 promotions takes heavy experience-farm to get. I do play on standard speed however, and I've heard that promotions are way more common on marathon/epic.

    About bee-lining for horsemen, it is a fairly heavy investment, both in tech and in hammers, horsemen are expensive and you also need to prioritize a worker and improve the horse-tile, they are however really strong so it might be worth it. I'm personally more likely to pick up chariots instead of horsemen, mainly because they are cheaper.


    As for a general plan, my goal in the early-game is usually expanding and making sure I don't die. As long as you have cities, infrastructure and you're not dead you can usually recover from anything. That being said sometimes I mix it up and try to go for an early wonder, if the situation calls for it. The early-game is really all about playing it enough to get a feeling for what you can get away with without dying.
     
  20. ExpiredReign

    ExpiredReign Deity

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    What's your advice on 'Citizen management'?

    I have been focusing on Production early on in an attempt to get buildings and wonders constructed early. Sometimes I switch to Gold focus if I'm running a little tight on funds.
    I've noticed though that the AI tend to grow their cities REALLY fast with new population happening every other turn and they can end up with cities in the 20's while I'm still in the 10's.

    This of course means the many slots for specialists often are not fully used and I'm wondering if this is my fundamental flaw?
     

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