AssignStartingPlots defaults for VP

Just reaffirming here that I also think the numbers for horses/iron are a smidge high (using tu's fix from a couple days ago).
 
Now we're having conflicting opinions... :undecide:

1. How many agribusiness buildings do you want per empire? This determines the number of horses.
2. How many lategame ranged ships+siege units do you want per empire? This determines the number of iron.

There is no way to enforce a number for early game only without affecting the whole map.
 
Just a few other things to take into account when determining numbers.

When selecting Sparse resources, are the numbers acceptable for those who play on this setting? It isn't fair for those who want less resources finding themselves with maps with more resources than they prefer. Getting their opinion by posting maps of sparse resources and asking their thoughts are important.

I also haven't seen enough talk about policies and tenet balances. Serfdom from Fealty affects Pastures so Horses, Cow and Sheep. Entrepreneurship from Industry might be affected if more Mines and Quarries can be placed than usual. Exploitation from Imperialism can also be affected by more things like Bison due to more Camps. Colonialism from Imperialism can be impacted if monopolies are easier to acquire but this is a maybe. The Rationalism opener with its impact on Strategic Resources can be affected in large ways if there are more strategic resources around, even in smaller quantities. For tenets, Third Alternative is my main concern due to the double of resources.

While I appreciate all the work @tu_79 and @azum4roll put into this, I feel that there are too many aspects affected for this to be considered a minor change. It's quite major and can have other impacts that we have yet to see.
 
I thought everyone is ok with the current number of bonus resources? Strategics shouldn't affect pantheons much outside of Earth Mother and Open Sky.
 
I thought everyone is ok with the current number of bonus resources? Strategics shouldn't affect pantheons much outside of Earth Mother and Open Sky.
Yeah Open Sky is a #1 offender currently. I'm good with the number of bonus resources, but the pantheons were balanced around having less resources in general, so they need tweaks. Spirit of the desert can get pretty crazy with the higher density, for example.

I think the right move is just getting the resource distribution settled (or at least mostly settled), then tackling pantheons.
 
Now we're having conflicting opinions... :undecide:

1. How many agribusiness buildings do you want per empire? This determines the number of horses.
2. How many lategame ranged ships+siege units do you want per empire? This determines the number of iron.

There is no way to enforce a number for early game only without affecting the whole map.
Can you all answer these questions? First we need to get the number of strategics right, before talking about density/size/location.

Spirit of the desert shouldn't be affected much with slightly more horses and stone but less sheep.
 
Can you all answer these questions? First we need to get the number of strategics right, before talking about density/size/location.

Spirit of the desert shouldn't be affected much with slightly more horses and stone but less sheep.
1. It isn't a building every city should get. Around 4 agribusiness per civ, so 64 horses in a standard size map? I'm including the resources that get taken by city states in this.

2. Iron same as horses. I'd start at 8 per civ.

Keep in mind that statecraft and ironworks provide strategics, and players die or lose land, so the actual number available by the late game is a lot higher than just what the map gives.
 
I count the 7 iron provided by ironworks + refineries. Do you mean 8 per civ including those or not?

Statecraft only provides at most 5 of each strategic resource (it's 1 per 3 allies iirc?) to the whole world. Not significant.
 
A standard communitu map is 79x53 tiles. Land percent is 40%. That's 1674 land tiles. There are roughly 210 tiles for each player plus 2 city states. City states first two rings are avoided, that's 34 tiles less. So each player has around 175 tiles to toy with. If we want 8 horses per player, with stacks varying from 3 to 4, that's 2.3 stacks per player, 18 in a standard map. This means setting the frequency for horses at 76 (1 horse stack every 76 eligible tiles). But not every tile is allowed to have horses, they are around one third of the workable land tiles. So the frequency should be 25 for all the lands that can have horses together.
Currently the frequency is 20 for grassland, 32 for plains, 40 for flooding (half sized), 70 for tundra (half sized). With a minimum distance of 1 or 2 (choosing randomly). When there are not enough major stacks created (they are not), several minor stacks are created until 64 horses can be counted in the map.

The same goes for iron, major iron deposits have 3 to 4 iron units, so each player needs 2.3 major iron stacks. That's a frequency of 76, but since iron can happen in pretty much every terrain, it will be enough with a frequency of 75 for all the lands that can have iron together.
Currently the values for iron are 75 for hills, 100 for grass or plains without features, 40 for desert without oasis, and 90 for flat tundra.
Then there's a 90% chance to choose iron for the following distribution: 45 for forest hills, 50 for forest flat, 60 for forest tundra.
Then there's a 40% chance to choose iron for the following distribution: 7 for snow. (Consider how rare snow is, with this frequency you see at most 2 stacks in your snowy area for the whole map).
Iron needs fixing, in my opinion. If I keep iron in snow and barren deserts to spicy the games, then the other terrains should get frequencies around 90 (1 iron stack every 90 tiles of that type of terrain). Especially iron on forest, it happens too often.
 
Pantheon balance is really off at the moment, much more than social policies IMO. I wanted to wait until the resource distribution stabilizes to make a post about it though.

You are right! I somehow forgot about it but, to be fair, more people mentioned it earlier while policies were just forgotten for the most part. I honestly would've preferred this being developed like Communitu_79a where it starts as a modmod and eventually integrated when everything is properly implemented.
 
When there are not enough major stacks created (they are not), several minor stacks are created until 64 horses can be counted in the map.
Where did you find this part? There's only a minimum of 32 horses enforced by placing minor deposits (4*number of players).

Just give me the optimal amount of each strategic, I'll figure out a way to place roughly that amount into the map.
 
A standard communitu map is 79x53 tiles. Land percent is 40%. That's 1674 land tiles. There are roughly 210 tiles for each player plus 2 city states. City states first two rings are avoided, that's 34 tiles less.
Why are city states first two rings avoided?
 
You are right! I somehow forgot about it but, to be fair, more people mentioned it earlier while policies were just forgotten for the most part. I honestly would've preferred this being developed like Communitu_79a where it starts as a modmod and eventually integrated when everything is properly implemented.

My point. I would prefer to go back to the old version and maybe ad the communtu map as an independent modpart. Now it is messed up.
 
Why are city states first two rings avoided?
I'm not quite sure, but there's an entire function for placing things around city state start locations, so I guess those are not accounted in the list of tiles to fill, but I can be mistaken. It could be that city states are placed near low fertility areas, but using the main resource generation.

If it is the other way, then the frequency values should be slightly higher. That doesn't change the fact that there's way too much iron stacks. Horses feel better, but have room for reduction.
 
I didn't include them, so 15 total if you count those (I don't think everyone builds max refineries every game)

I wouldn't, to me refineries are an expensive building only if needed, not a standard building to use in the normal calculus.
 
To me refineries exist to provide a new source of strategics in the late game that doesn't require settling. Without building them you can still live, but with fewer factories/train stations/seaports/ranged ships/siege units. If you need more of those, you have to build refineries.

It's better than handing 13-15 iron to you in the early game.
 
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