Feature Proposal - Great General "like" Citadels for outside border resource access

[burticus]

So I have played many a VP game where I am limited in a particular critical resource (usually coal or iron), but see those resources in otherwise crappy areas to build cities... like far away arctic areas or 1 tile islands. I hate building 1 tile island cities, they are too hard to defend and usually the population is always angry (with minor exceptions like Polynesia or MAYBE Spain). I would love to be able to build an "outpost" on a remote area, that gives me access to a remote resource without a city. Something along the lines of the Great General's citadel function, but be able to use it way outside your borders. It would save me from creating a bunch of crappy cities in the arctic ocean areas just to grab more iron / coal etc. I think it "should" be a GP improvement, to make it harder to accomplish, than a regular unit you could build.

I'm just so sick of having nice game progress until the later resources pop up and end up being in the middle of nowhere or in the middle of the ocean/arctic.

Thoughts?

 

[usadefcon1]

So I have played many a VP game where I am limited in a particular critical resource (usually coal or iron), but see those resources in otherwise crappy areas to build cities... like far away arctic areas or 1 tile islands. I hate building 1 tile island cities, they are too hard to defend and usually the population is always angry (with minor exceptions like Polynesia or MAYBE Spain). I would love to be able to build an "outpost" on a remote area, that gives me access to a remote resource without a city. Something along the lines of the Great General's citadel function, but be able to use it way outside your borders. It would save me from creating a bunch of crappy cities in the arctic ocean areas just to grab more iron / coal etc. I think it "should" be a GP improvement, to make it harder to accomplish, than a regular unit you could build.

I'm just so sick of having nice game progress until the later resources pop up and end up being in the middle of nowhere or in the middle of the ocean/arctic.

Thoughts?

Try this mod:

Thread 'Extraction Outpost TI'

Jun 16, 2023

Extraction Outpost

DOWNLOAD​

This is a little mod for the late game when you are in need of Strategic Resources but it's too inconvenient to settle new Cities just for that.

Features:

• Late Recon Units (Paratrooper, Special Forces, XCOM Squad) may be expended to create an Extraction Outpost improvement on any Strategic Resource in neutral lands to connect them (it also claims the tile).
• Extraction Outpost unlocks at Flight together with Paratrooper.

Credits: DJSHenninger for the TI model.

• jarcast2
• Replies: 14
• Forum: Mods Repository

• 

 

[burticus]

Interesting but you can't use it until Paratrooper which is too late IMHO. Works with VP? I might give it a shot. I don't think you get Paratrooper until Atomic era?

Downside is, AI can use it too. I would need to be hunting these things with naval units and whacking them like remote barb sites...

edit - well it would be after flight so maybe late modern era

 

[FinMc]

If you don't want AI using it and are annoyed by how late it is, why not just use IGE to give yourself the tile?

 

[Anarcomu]

I got an idea some time ago, but not sure if it is possible :
Basically the same thing as the mod, except the tile does not change ownership and remain neutral.
Since it is possible to have improvement in foreign land that keep track of its original creator (embassies), I was wondering if it was possible to do this with outposts too.
The idea is that they could be pillaged and the spot stolen (with a scout), or that someone who actually built a city and grab the tile could take the resource for themselves.

This still allow exploitation of faraway tiles with scouts, but cities take precedence over outposts.

 

[Cacaso]

That would be a good idea @Anarcomu, without the AI being able to claim the tile (leaving it to be claimed by nearby cities) this will not affect the player in an annoying way. Because if the AI forward settles with this improvment, there will be no problem because the tile can be conquered with culture by a city. The improvment could then be protected by another military unit.

I think it would be a very feasible idea.

Then this could be a future ability for scout units for tiles on land. For tiles in water with coral, pearls... or other aquatic resources, do you think the idea of giving this ability to a naval unit (work boat) in a more advanced technology (industrial era, or later) could also be interesting?

 

[CppMaster]

I like more the idea of settling puppet cities since colonists.

 

[usadefcon1]

I like more the idea of settling puppet cities since colonists.

There's a mod for that too (under the misc section):

B

Thread 'Various Gameplay Tweaks (Separate Naval Supply, Veterancy, Less Micro etc.)'

Dec 17, 2021

Separate Naval Supply
Download here
- Capitals, Lighthouses, Harbors and each coastal city provide 1 naval supply. Great Admirals' ability (voyage of discovery, was it?) provides 2
- Seaports provide 1 supply for every 10 citizens, and Venetian Arsenale provides 1 for every 15 citizens (in addition to +3 flat supply).
- Naval wonders provide naval supply:
Great Cothon (Carthage NW): 2 / Great Lighthouse, Colossus: 2 / Piazza San Marco & Venetian Arsenale: 3 / Grand Canal: 4 . Venetian NWs have their usual (land) supply bonus reduced.

Haven't specifically tested...

• balparmak
• Replies: 108
• Forum: Mods Repository

• 

 

[Anarcomu]

The improvment could then be protected by another military unit.

Well, you should only be able to built that improvement in neutral territory, so no need to protect the resource once you claim it within your border (unless ofc you are at war and want to avoid pillage).
And Fort where originally destroyed when pillaged, I think it would be fair if this improvement is, indeed, destroyed when pillaged too.

 

[balparmak]

I got an idea some time ago, but not sure if it is possible :
Basically the same thing as the mod, except the tile does not change ownership and remain neutral.
Since it is possible to have improvement in foreign land that keep track of its original creator (embassies), I was wondering if it was possible to do this with outposts too.
The idea is that they could be pillaged and the spot stolen (with a scout), or that someone who actually built a city and grab the tile could take the resource for themselves.

This still allow exploitation of faraway tiles with scouts, but cities take precedence over outposts.

This sounds great, and can have a neat diplomatic interaction when you pillage others' extractors if it can be done without declaring war, but still resulting in a hefty penalty (a la citadelbombing).

We need some kind of a restriction though, some way to simulate logistics. Checking whether the tile is within trade route range would make sense.

I think this can be combined with pioneers& colonists founding puppets idea. The modmod works as a proof of concept, but we need to differentiate puppets and colonies more, especially through policies. I'm willing to sponsor that but I'm not a balance guy, so someone has ta come up with those changes.

 

[CppMaster]

There's a mod for that too (under the misc section):

B

Thread 'Various Gameplay Tweaks (Separate Naval Supply, Veterancy, Less Micro etc.)'

Dec 17, 2021

Separate Naval Supply
Download here
- Capitals, Lighthouses, Harbors and each coastal city provide 1 naval supply. Great Admirals' ability (voyage of discovery, was it?) provides 2
- Seaports provide 1 supply for every 10 citizens, and Venetian Arsenale provides 1 for every 15 citizens (in addition to +3 flat supply).
- Naval wonders provide naval supply:
Great Cothon (Carthage NW): 2 / Great Lighthouse, Colossus: 2 / Piazza San Marco & Venetian Arsenale: 3 / Grand Canal: 4 . Venetian NWs have their usual (land) supply bonus reduced.

Haven't specifically tested...

• balparmak
• Replies: 108
• Forum: Mods Repository

• 

Yes! So the proposal would be simply to integrate that part, so then the mod could be balanced with that

 

[Tekamthi]

i think ai always pillages neutral improvements? or will they avoid pillaging the one they are flagged as owners of?

 

[civVpSimp]

Nice idea. It should be a new settler type, and/or restricted to some social policy.