AssignStartingPlots defaults for VP

[James Ryle]

Just played with the new changes and the minimum increase in distance and less horses made it feel more strategic and interesting again where I should place my cities. On a big island where I and three other Civs spawned the resources were only clustered in one place around a Civ. But this area was totally clustered. Enough for that Civ to have 3/4 cities with massive amounts of resources/stone/flood plains/ and at least 3 more horse deposits compared to the rest of us. They also spawned near the only Natural wonder on the island and snagged that before I had my first city down on Emperor. Good stuff Ai.

 

[tu_79]

Just played with the new changes and the minimum increase in distance and less horses made it feel more strategic and interesting again where I should place my cities. On a big island where I and three other Civs spawned the resources were only clustered in one place around a Civ. But this area was totally clustered. Enough for that Civ to have 3/4 cities with massive amounts of resources/stone/flood plains/ and at least 3 more horse deposits compared to the rest of us. They also spawned near the only Natural wonder on the island and snagged that before I had my first city down on Emperor. Good stuff Ai.

I've done a couple of tests and there's some clustering, especially with bonus resources, but nothing game breaking. Let us know how it goes.

 

[azum4roll]

I've completed the decipher of code at https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/assignstartingplots-defaults-for-vp.662444/#post-15896669

Feel free to take a look if you have time.

Three more questions for you all:
1. What do you think of grassland jungles? Currently FeatureGenerator turns them all into plains, which is why you only see those in Communitu_79a.
2. Are there enough oases on the map to make deserts habitable? (6% chance)
3. Are you satisfied with the current amount of lakes? (1/160 chance of appearing for each non-coastal non-river land plot)

 

[Stalker0]

notes inline for communitas_79 feedback

I've completed the decipher of code at https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/assignstartingplots-defaults-for-vp.662444/#post-15896669

Feel free to take a look if you have time.

Three more questions for you all:
1. What do you think of grassland jungles? Currently FeatureGenerator turns them all into plains, which is why you only see those in Communitu_79a.
--No comment
2. Are there enough oases on the map to make deserts habitable? (6% chance)
--I wouldn't mind these being a bit more common, I don't see them all that often.
3. Are you satisfied with the current amount of lakes? (1/160 chance of appearing for each non-coastal non-river land plot)
--I am

 

[CrazyG]

Three more questions for you all:
1. What do you think of grassland jungles? Currently FeatureGenerator turns them all into plains, which is why you only see those in Communitu_79a.
2. Are there enough oases on the map to make deserts habitable? (6% chance)
3. Are you satisfied with the current amount of lakes? (1/160 chance of appearing for each non-coastal non-river land plot)

1. So far I've only seen it appear under luxuries, which changes the tile (-1 production, +1 food). If it has grassland under it after chopping that's fine, but I'd prefer it kept the production while it's still a jungle.
2. Pretty good. Maybe try 7%.
3. Yes

 

[azum4roll]

notes inline for communitas_79 feedback

Oh I was specifically asking for non-communitas feedback lol. There are way fewer lakes and oasis (especially lakes that mainly appear because of land formation, not because of random assignation) so I'm asking.

EDIT: Just noticed standard maps can make funny terrain like this

 

[JamesNinelives]

I like grassland jungles! I think most should still be plains, but some variation is nice.

Oases seem OK. I wouldn't object to slightly more, but not a lot. They are supposed to be relatively rare. Deserts could be less barren though.

I like lakes, but they seem a bit hit-and-miss. I would like to see more mid-range, 2-4 tile lakes. I feel like I mostly see either 1-tile lakes or very large lake areas that feel a bit unnatural.

 

[azum4roll]

1-tile lakes are from random conversions. Larger lakes are all inner seas formed by the map that are less than 10 plots large. Without changing the AddLakes function it's not possible to have mid-sized lakes at will.

 

[JamesNinelives]

1-tile lakes are from random conversions. Larger lakes are all inner seas formed by the map that are less than 10 plots large. Without changing the AddLakes function it's not possible to have mid-sized lakes at will.

In that case I'd say lakes are OK. Perhaps a little more would be nice .

I do sometimes wonder if the limit on ocean size should be smaller, but that's another discussion I guess.

 

[tu_79]

I like grassland jungles! I think most should still be plains, but some variation is nice.

Oases seem OK. I wouldn't object to slightly more, but not a lot. They are supposed to be relatively rare. Deserts could be less barren though.

I like lakes, but they seem a bit hit-and-miss. I would like to see more mid-range, 2-4 tile lakes. I feel like I mostly see either 1-tile lakes or very large lake areas that feel a bit unnatural.

I'm talking especifically for communitu, I separated the logic that converted all the terrain under a jungle into plains. You see, the logic for jungles was trash. Anything between tropic latitudes was jungle, anything outside that was forest. That's not what a jungle is. A jungle is a rainforest. A rainforest has a few requirements: humidity and temperature must be between some fixed values. Plus, being over hills the requirements are slightly different. The difference between grasslands and plains is mostly the humidity: if it is too cold it becomes tundra, if it is too hot or too dry it becomes desert. As long as the temperature is right, you get plains on semi-dry terrain, grassland on humid and marsh on wet. Now, jungles can exist with the same humidity that allows for plains if the temperature is high enough, but they are more common on grasslands. Having a river or a lake nearby increases the humidity logic. The result is a pretty natural looking.

 

[JamesNinelives]

I'm talking especifically for communitu, I separated the logic that converted all the terrain under a jungle into plains. You see, the logic for jungles was trash. Anything between tropic latitudes was jungle, anything outside that was forest. That's not what a jungle is. A jungle is a rainforest. A rainforest has a few requirements: humidity and temperature must be between some fixed values. Plus, being over hills the requirements are slightly different. The difference between grasslands and plains is mostly the humidity: if it is too cold it becomes tundra, if it is too hot or too dry it becomes desert. As long as the temperature is right, you get plains on semi-dry terrain, grassland on humid and marsh on wet. Now, jungles can exist with the same humidity that allows for plains if the temperature is high enough, but they are more common on grasslands. Having a river or a lake nearby increases the humidity logic. The result is a pretty natural looking.

As long as there's enough plains jungles that jungle starts aren't hammer-starved. Jungle cities already grow fairly fast, and cutting jungle can take a lot of time and workers.

 

[tu_79]

As long as there's enough plains jungles that jungle starts aren't hammer-starved. Jungle cities already grow fairly fast, and cutting jungle can take a lot of time and workers.

If you all feel like there's too few jungles on plains, I will look into the allowed values.

 

[JamesNinelives]

If you all feel like there's too few jungles on plains, I will look into the allowed values.

Sorry, I'm not sure I was clear. I was talking about the default script.

 

[tu_79]

Sorry, I'm not sure I was clear. I was talking about the default script.

I know, I know. But I'm open to fixes in the other map

 

[azum4roll]

Yeah, let's not talk about our pet mapscript here. That's off-topic We still need to create a thread for that.

From my experience with AI games, jungles (with the majority being grassland) are actually very good starts. Food is more useful than you think in the very early game.

 

[azum4roll]

Try this version! Just unzip it into your mod 6a folder.

Changes:

• Various frequency and impact radius changes on strategic and bonus resources. Noticeably much less stone and bison here.
• Desert and tundra horse major deposits have been changed to contain 70% of horses as the spawns elsewhere (2-4 in standard).
  
• Minor deposit chances have also been tweaked to give more aluminum, fewer horses and less coal. Frequency fixed to 20 regardless of number of civs.
• Forests have replaced strategics and stone as the "bonus" for low production starts.
• Bison can appear near starting positions now.
  
• Bananas have been banished from non-tropical areas.
  
• 25% of all jungles are grassland now.

Note that due to the very random nature of the standard maps (I rolled one with 4:1 grassland: plains ratio), the amount of resources can fluctuate between games A LOT.

 

[tu_79]

Try this version! Just unzip it into your mod 6a folder.

Changes:

• Various frequency and impact radius changes on strategic and bonus resources. Noticeably much less stone and bison here.
• Desert and tundra horse major deposits have been changed to contain 70% of horses as the spawns elsewhere (2-4 in standard).
  
• Minor deposit chances have also been tweaked to give more aluminum, fewer horses and less coal. Frequency fixed to 20 regardless of number of civs.
• Forests have replaced strategics and stone as the "bonus" for low production starts.
• Bison can appear near starting positions now.
  
• Bananas have been banished from non-tropical areas.
  
• 25% of all jungles are grassland now.

Note that due to the very random nature of the standard maps (I rolled one with 4:1 grassland: plains ratio), the amount of resources can fluctuate between games A LOT.

Did you work from the values I tuned or is it from scratch?

 

[James Ryle]

Three more questions for you all:
1. What do you think of grassland jungles? Currently FeatureGenerator turns them all into plains, which is why you only see those in Communitu_79a.
2. Are there enough oases on the map to make deserts habitable? (6% chance)
3. Are you satisfied with the current amount of lakes? (1/160 chance of appearing for each non-coastal non-river land plot)

1- Grasslands jungles are a nice variation option while jungle plains are still much more abundant.
2- Needs more Oases - I see 3 large deserts that are mostly covered in flood plains but no Oases. Although on this map, no Oasis is needed there are not many pure deserts and so many flood plains but an oasis or 2 would have given it a fresh look and different production option.
3 - More Lakes. About 5%. They are great strategic features that draw multiple Civs towards them to found a city and get food bonus if the land around is arid and the lake is large enough.

-
I find that the single forest near a capital a lot of the time has a luxury resource that is different from the monopoly multitude luxury. I like this.

 

[azum4roll]

Did you work from the values I tuned or is it from scratch?

All from scratch! We kinda started work at the same time.

3 - More Lakes. About 5%. They are great strategic features that draw multiple Civs towards them to found a city and get food bonus if the land around is arid and the lake is large enough.

The lake placement function needs a complete overhaul to make more lakes (tiny lakes scattered around the map are awkward). I'm not sure if others would let me do it

Three more questions for you all:
I find that the single forest near a capital a lot of the time has a luxury resource that is different from the monopoly multitude luxury. I like this.

Oh that's more likely just formed by AdjustTiles. Luxury placements only follow terrain, I think.

 

[DeAnno]

Replace the file in MODS/(6x) Community Balance Overhaul -Compatibility files/LUA.

I attempted to do this and my lightly modded Oval generated a map with no Strategics at all. Was working fine with the unmodded patch previous to this.