Aztec Ability overpowered?

[ashvin.l]

Hi all,
Just finished my first game as Aztec. Apart from a lot of bugs/UI issues, the overall game is playable. Two main observations

1. I did find their ability to be OP: The original purpose of having cost of districts increase with number of districts built is to ensure that we don't do some sort of ICS. However, with Aztecs UA, the work provides 20% of the district cost. Which means, even in a 1 pop city, I can finish spaceport in 5 turns (probably faster if I have a bunch of 1-charge workers standing next to the district). A worker gets 5 charges (6 if you can count Pyramids) in the late game. So, I would require 1 worker to build 1 district. In late games, there is room for abuse.

Ideally, they should cap the worker boost to a maximum production value (in addition to the 20% limit).

2. Their Unique Wonder is Meh: Aztecs get a lot of amenities as is due to their UA. Adding a wonder that gives more amenities hits the point of diminishing returns. I didn't find it very useful. Did not build it.

Ashvin

 

[MagicCuboid]

Hi all,
Just finished my first game as Aztec. Apart from a lot of bugs/UI issues, the overall game is playable. Two main observations

1. I did find their ability to be OP: The original purpose of having cost of districts increase with number of districts built is to ensure that we don't do some sort of ICS. However, with Aztecs UA, the work provides 20% of the district cost. Which means, even in a 1 pop city, I can finish spaceport in 5 turns (probably faster if I have a bunch of 1-charge workers standing next to the district). A worker gets 5 charges (6 if you can count Pyramids) in the late game. So, I would require 1 worker to build 1 district. In late games, there is room for abuse.

Ideally, they should cap the worker boost to a maximum production value (in addition to the 20% limit).

2. Their Unique Wonder is Meh: Aztecs get a lot of amenities as is due to their UA. Adding a wonder that gives more amenities hits the point of diminishing returns. I didn't find it very useful. Did not build it.

Ashvin

I haven't played Aztecs yet, but I wonder if they should limit the worker rushing districts bonus to the Ancient/Classical period like they do for China. It would force them to use their Eagle Warriors to sprawl out and found cities quickly before they lose their bonus, but then level the playing field a bit. They're already helped by bonus amenities for early settling anyway.

 

[Returning Lurker]

maybe changing the percentage bonus to a flat hammer bonus would help the problem? Like making it so that they initially give the hammers equal to 20% of the district's production but as the districts increase in cost the relative percentage those hammers contribute shrinks further and further?

 

[MagicCuboid]

maybe changing the percentage bonus to a flat hammer bonus would help the problem? Like making it so that they initially give the hammers equal to 20% of the district's production but as the districts increase in cost the relative percentage those hammers contribute shrinks further and further?

I thought about that and it's a pretty good idea, but hard to execute. District costs really skyrocket TBH, so as it is 20% of a starter district would be a total waste after just one or two cities. It's also difficult to communicate to the player when they should stop wasting builders on districts with flat rates; hence, a simple era cutoff time might be easier.

 

[Promethian]

The builder to district ability is really good. However it is far from the most powerful thing in the game. Notice its not even a consideration in all the metagame threads on the forum. In the first civ tier thread it didn't even make it to the "good" tier, just average. I am not trying to make an ad populum. I want to point out that there is a lot out there that is just as strong and often easier to exploit. I am reminded of the quote "If everything is overpowered then nothing is." In the case of 4X games things are much more interesting if there are very strong abilities out there that change the way we play. If we nerf everything down to where its impact is minimal then it just homogenizes everything and we lose the interesting gameplay interactions.

 

[Roald Amundsen]

As far as i'm concerned, any tool put in the player hands Are op in this game, as the AI have no idea how to use any of them.

 

[remconius]

I agree with the districts building boost. It should be a 1x boost per district. I was actually surprises that you can do multiple boosts....

 

[Myth and Legend]

Seeing how the districts cost a lot and that you have excess gold if you settle for peace wtih the Deity AI (thus you can buy builders for gold), I'd say it's really strong.

 

[criZp]

The builder to district ability is really good. However it is far from the most powerful thing in the game. Notice its not even a consideration in all the metagame threads on the forum. In the first civ tier thread it didn't even make it to the "good" tier, just average.

The tier list was made by one single guy's feelings about the civs after just looking at their bonuses. It doesn't really say anything, especially since many people in the thread disagreed alot with the list.

Anyway I remember in my first america game the districts cost like 30-60 turns of production, just building a worker for a few turns instead and units him to instantly build the districts sounds very strong indeed.

 

[RaidandTrade]

I'm halfway through an Aztec game and totally forgot I could rush districts so have hard built them all... *Facepalm*

 

[elitetroops]

Yes, I'd say it is overpowered, because it makes building districts the normal way obsolete. There is literally no reason to ever put production into a district the normal way when you are playing the Aztecs. It is always better to build a builder, then only put the district in the production cue to put production into it with builders, then immediately switch production back to another builder/something else. Combine this with the hordes of free builders your Eagle Warriors earn you, and the extra amenities that allow for easier wide expansion and they're definitely top tier.

The first game I started was with Aztecs on immortal. 70 turns in I had got about 10 free builders and found that playing Aztecs is too much easy mode so I started a new game with another leader instead. (Not that it helped much, everything about this game seems to be easy mode right now.)

I didn't even realize they can rush spaceports. That only makes them more overpowered.

 

[Infiltrator]

The builder to district ability is really good. However it is far from the most powerful thing in the game. Notice its not even a consideration in all the metagame threads on the forum. In the first civ tier thread it didn't even make it to the "good" tier, just average. I am not trying to make an ad populum. I want to point out that there is a lot out there that is just as strong and often easier to exploit. I am reminded of the quote "If everything is overpowered then nothing is." In the case of 4X games things are much more interesting if there are very strong abilities out there that change the way we play. If we nerf everything down to where its impact is minimal then it just homogenizes everything and we lose the interesting gameplay interactions.

It's just one guy's tier list. Whether or not a civ makes it doesn't mean anything because obviously people haven't tested the game nearly enough to draw definitive conclusions. Being able to rush any district and saving up massive hammers on workers from the moment you start the game (where it's most important) is definitely one of the best abilities any civ can get and the flat bonus to damage from amneties is pretty relevant mid/late game.

 

[greygamer]

I was wondering how long before the tier lists started appearing, probably too soon for any meaningful lists imo

 

[phillipwyllie]

...However, with Aztecs UA, the work provides 20% of the district cost...

It's %20 of the base cost.

...I didn't even realize they can rush spaceports....

Rushing a spaceport wont save you that much time as the SV is in 3 parts and part 1 must be done by only 1 city and before part 2 which is done by only 1 city. Part 3 itself is 3 parts which can be done simultaneously but only after parts 1 and 2 have been completed. Sub t200 SV on Deity aint gonna happen in vanilla civ6....

 

[esoba]

I really love the Aztec ability, but on Marathon - which gives a ton of time to get builders early since your units are viable for freaking ever - they are really powerful. I could throw up a new city and have a district built in 4 turns. Also, and I haven't been keeping track of what I've been doing but some of my builders I make in my capital now have 6-7 charges, which makes this civs ability to churn out districts incredible. However, it is my opinion that districts in general are too expensive (hammer wise) for the other civs. The only civ I actually build them a bit with is the Aztecs because they aren't so crazy high priced.

 

[Myth and Legend]

On Marathon the game is so skewed towards warmongering that I doubt I'd bother getting anything else than archers into crossbowmen and 1 horseman.