No pillaging roads behind his back now.
Bartleby's HoF Thread
- Thread starter Bartleby
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No pillaging roads behind his back now.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I assume "privately"? so nobody else can access the saves?
BlackBetsy, let me know the map settings, civ, opponents, etc. and I'll run MapFinder. I'm not sure how easy cow+river+ivory actually is, but we'll see...
BlackBetsy
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I need Large Emperor Pangaea 60% Water Normal Wetness, 5 billion years, No barbs, Least Aggressive AI. Civ is Persia. Opponents are England, Korea, France, Byzantines, Germans, Greeks. River + Grassland Cow + Ivory + 3 hills. Curious to see how long it takes to get even 1 of those maps.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
@BlackBetsy I ran Mapfinder for two nights and the intervening day, nearly 7000 iterations, and didn't get any maps. I've started it again without the requirement for Ivory and it's already saved a few. I'll leave it running tonight again and send you the saves tomorrow, if you're interested in them.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I'm pondering whether to change my strategy for Huge Emperor 20k. I played 22 starts yesterday and this morning, I got one SGL and that was in a game where the area around the capital had more marshes than I've ever seen. I have to admit that I did not stick to the plan of ditching games without CB leader, I could've gotten through more starts if I had, I suppose.
I had decided for the first couple of games to play them out to see how things went, and I've found the main problems I'm having is lack of access to Luxuries, and running out of stuff to build quickly. The first game I played I went for alphabet after CB but then found it was a while before I could trade for Mysticism, and in the end I missed the Oracle.
So after that I tried researching Mysticism myself before heading towards the slingshot, and I was still able to get it. That game was also quite a powerful start location, with two cows and several hills, a couple of them with Incense, and Ivory close to hand. I played that game to 10 AD, having built Pyramids, Oracle, Mausoleum, Statue of Zeus, and was building the Great Library. I intend play it further, but I also wanted to see if I could get an even better one (i.e. with a leader).
I had one game with a reasonable coastal start for the Colossus, but the Chinese beat me to the Pyramids then.
The last two tries, I decided to see if I could stick Literature in before the slingshot, but both times Russia got Philosophy before me.
So...the strategy change I'm pondering is whether to try playing on an Archipelago map, to slow the early AI tech trading, and/or to switch to a Commercial or Seafaring civ so I don't have to research Alphabet.
I had decided for the first couple of games to play them out to see how things went, and I've found the main problems I'm having is lack of access to Luxuries, and running out of stuff to build quickly. The first game I played I went for alphabet after CB but then found it was a while before I could trade for Mysticism, and in the end I missed the Oracle.
So after that I tried researching Mysticism myself before heading towards the slingshot, and I was still able to get it. That game was also quite a powerful start location, with two cows and several hills, a couple of them with Incense, and Ivory close to hand. I played that game to 10 AD, having built Pyramids, Oracle, Mausoleum, Statue of Zeus, and was building the Great Library. I intend play it further, but I also wanted to see if I could get an even better one (i.e. with a leader).
I had one game with a reasonable coastal start for the Colossus, but the Chinese beat me to the Pyramids then.
The last two tries, I decided to see if I could stick Literature in before the slingshot, but both times Russia got Philosophy before me.
So...the strategy change I'm pondering is whether to try playing on an Archipelago map, to slow the early AI tech trading, and/or to switch to a Commercial or Seafaring civ so I don't have to research Alphabet.
BlackBetsy
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Yes, please, thank you. I guess I'm not surprised that Ivory was the problem, since they are plains luxes.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I have 20 starts left from my last batch of Ottoman games, I plan to run through these quickly before trying again, I think as the French.
I've been going for the slingshot before Literature but what I think I'm going to do now is to research Lit before Philo, then go for CoL as the free tech. The Despotic Golden Age will probably still get Rebublic in a reasonable time, and an eariler Library won't be a bad thing.
The two games I played through to 10 AD had about 1200-1300 culture in the capital, and 31/33 culture per turn. Both were close to finishing their next wonders, but that still seems not good enough.
I've been going for the slingshot before Literature but what I think I'm going to do now is to research Lit before Philo, then go for CoL as the free tech. The Despotic Golden Age will probably still get Rebublic in a reasonable time, and an eariler Library won't be a bad thing.
The two games I played through to 10 AD had about 1200-1300 culture in the capital, and 31/33 culture per turn. Both were close to finishing their next wonders, but that still seems not good enough.
BlackBetsy
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I'm thinking about figuring out a trajectory for 20k games - a check point against which you can measure a 20k game. CivAssist II is pretty good about this, you just need to load the saves and it will tell you projected end dates. I'd think you'd get a 1000 BC, 10 AD and 1000 AD trajectory. I'll spend some time thinking about it and maybe doing a google doc from, say, 50 or so 20k games.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I haven't been able to get CAII to work on my current computer, when I tried to install it said I needed the .NET thingy, and after I installed that it still said the same thing.
BlackBetsy
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I wish I remembered how I fixed it...but I'm pretty sure I followed the advice in the forums. It does work with Windows 11. It doesn't auto-update every turn like I remember it doing.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I'm still on WIndows 10, but I might go looking to see if I can find any info about installing it.
I have MapStat working OK and that monitors the Autosaves, but it seems that if I try to get it to monitor another directory it stops monitoring the Autosaves and the only way I could get it to do it again was by uninstalling, manually deleting all the Registry entries, and reinstalling...I just keep it monitoring the autosaves now.
I have MapStat working OK and that monitors the Autosaves, but it seems that if I try to get it to monitor another directory it stops monitoring the Autosaves and the only way I could get it to do it again was by uninstalling, manually deleting all the Registry entries, and reinstalling...I just keep it monitoring the autosaves now.
BlackBetsy
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I think I remember what I did - I downloaded the *older* version of CivAssist II, rather than the updated one. And it worked right away.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I was just in the Utilities forum, and that's what the recommendation was there, so I've downloaded it & will try it tonight!
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I made a test of researching Lit before Philo and taking Code of Laws for free.
In that game I had no Ivory, but the start was coastal so I ended up with the Colossus instead of SoZ, but at 10 AD I did come out slightly ahead of the Slingshot games in terms of culture.
After Philosophy I built MoM which triggered the Golden Age and it took almost the whole of it to research the Repubic. I built the Great Library during the GA and that caught up the techs that I hadn't managed/bothered to trade for up to then, leaving only Currency left for the Ancient Age. I revolted as soon as the Golden Age was over and switched to Republic at around the same time as I got Currency from the Great Library. Having met only two of the four Scientific civs in the game, trading wasn't a great success and we all got Feudalism, so I'm researching Monotheism myself (at 10+ turns sort of pace, but that should improve as more Libraries and more towns get added). I hope the AI will get Engineering soon enough for me to get it from the GL; I have some tiles I need to put Forests on at the Capital.
Having said that, this particular game so far is lacking in luxuries (only one nearby) and resources (Iron but no Horses), and it goes without saying that I didn't get an SGL.
In that game I had no Ivory, but the start was coastal so I ended up with the Colossus instead of SoZ, but at 10 AD I did come out slightly ahead of the Slingshot games in terms of culture.
After Philosophy I built MoM which triggered the Golden Age and it took almost the whole of it to research the Repubic. I built the Great Library during the GA and that caught up the techs that I hadn't managed/bothered to trade for up to then, leaving only Currency left for the Ancient Age. I revolted as soon as the Golden Age was over and switched to Republic at around the same time as I got Currency from the Great Library. Having met only two of the four Scientific civs in the game, trading wasn't a great success and we all got Feudalism, so I'm researching Monotheism myself (at 10+ turns sort of pace, but that should improve as more Libraries and more towns get added). I hope the AI will get Engineering soon enough for me to get it from the GL; I have some tiles I need to put Forests on at the Capital.
Having said that, this particular game so far is lacking in luxuries (only one nearby) and resources (Iron but no Horses), and it goes without saying that I didn't get an SGL.
BlackBetsy
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Are you quitting games without an early SGL?
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
No, even though that was my intention.
Generally I quit a game when I decide there's too much wrong with it (jungly/marshy/tundra surrounding terrain, not enough lux/resources). If I haven't given up on it by 10 AD, I save it and start the next one. When I've used up all my 4000 BC saves I'm going to look again at the 10 AD saves, play them to maybe 250 AD and see if I want to continue any of them further than that. I'm still hoping one of the remaining saves might give me an early leader.
Edit: one of the major reasons I'll abandon a game is if there isn't a suitable second-city site with a food bonus.
Generally I quit a game when I decide there's too much wrong with it (jungly/marshy/tundra surrounding terrain, not enough lux/resources). If I haven't given up on it by 10 AD, I save it and start the next one. When I've used up all my 4000 BC saves I'm going to look again at the 10 AD saves, play them to maybe 250 AD and see if I want to continue any of them further than that. I'm still hoping one of the remaining saves might give me an early leader.
Edit: one of the major reasons I'll abandon a game is if there isn't a suitable second-city site with a food bonus.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
It's finally happened, start no. 51 of 51 Ottoman starts generated:
Now I really don't know what to do. I built the Pyramids, then a Temple, and a couple of Settlers out of the Capital while Mysticism was being researched. Now I have that I'm undecided as to the next step. I'd been toying with the idea of researching Polytheism myself, then to see if I could trade for Alphabet by the time that finished; that's because the time it takes to research Alpha-Writing-Lit is a huge gap with nothing to build. But then if I can't trade for Alpha, either because I haven't made enough contacts or they just haven't managed to get there yet, then that'll've set Literature back a very long way, and anyway the AI will probably research Poly for themselves and they also might have Oracle builds to cascade towards ToA.
Another possibility is to try for the Slingshot before Lit., and enjoy a Republic Golden Age (I have nine BG for the Capital).
Now I really don't know what to do. I built the Pyramids, then a Temple, and a couple of Settlers out of the Capital while Mysticism was being researched. Now I have that I'm undecided as to the next step. I'd been toying with the idea of researching Polytheism myself, then to see if I could trade for Alphabet by the time that finished; that's because the time it takes to research Alpha-Writing-Lit is a huge gap with nothing to build. But then if I can't trade for Alpha, either because I haven't made enough contacts or they just haven't managed to get there yet, then that'll've set Literature back a very long way, and anyway the AI will probably research Poly for themselves and they also might have Oracle builds to cascade towards ToA.
Another possibility is to try for the Slingshot before Lit., and enjoy a Republic Golden Age (I have nine BG for the Capital).
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
It doesn't rain, it pours!
I decided after some thought that I would stick with the originally-planned route of Alpha-Writing-Lit, but after the SGL I decided to research Philo (10 turns) instead of Lit (16 turns). Philo ended up taking eight turns I think.
I built the Great Library with Thabit Ibn Qurra, and during the Golden Age I built a Library, the Mausoleum and started on ToA.
After taking Lit as the free tech, I had started on Code of Laws but after two turns I decided to swap to Polytheism as I was worried about running out of builds again (I had built Wealth for a while after the Oracle). As it happens, I met the Sumerians a couple of turns before they learned Polytheism, which ended up cutting one turn off my research. I then researched CoL and after that decided to go for Monarchy before Republic, and then the discovery of Republic timed quite nicely with the completion of the Hanging Gardens. I revolted, and drew only four turns of Anarchy!
In Republic there was only Construction and Currency left to research, I chose Currency in the hope that the AI would come up with Construction first, and luckily they did, just before I finished Currency. I gifted the four Scientific AI and was able to trade for Monotheism and Engineering. I hoped for Theology, but I got Feudalism -- at least that gives me a Sun Tzu prebuild for Sistine.
I've just settled a remote town for Ivory, so my next dilemma will be in a few turns, whether to use the prebuild for SoZ, or hold out for Sistine and then build SoZ...I'm leaning towards SoZ because America has Ivory, but I didn't see them building it yet on the F7 screen. I also haven't met the Zulu yet, so they could also have Ivory and be building it.
Culture-wise, I'm streets ahead of any of my other attempts, but I guess that two early SGLs will do that. I hope I don't mess this up now.
I decided after some thought that I would stick with the originally-planned route of Alpha-Writing-Lit, but after the SGL I decided to research Philo (10 turns) instead of Lit (16 turns). Philo ended up taking eight turns I think.
I built the Great Library with Thabit Ibn Qurra, and during the Golden Age I built a Library, the Mausoleum and started on ToA.
After taking Lit as the free tech, I had started on Code of Laws but after two turns I decided to swap to Polytheism as I was worried about running out of builds again (I had built Wealth for a while after the Oracle). As it happens, I met the Sumerians a couple of turns before they learned Polytheism, which ended up cutting one turn off my research. I then researched CoL and after that decided to go for Monarchy before Republic, and then the discovery of Republic timed quite nicely with the completion of the Hanging Gardens. I revolted, and drew only four turns of Anarchy!
In Republic there was only Construction and Currency left to research, I chose Currency in the hope that the AI would come up with Construction first, and luckily they did, just before I finished Currency. I gifted the four Scientific AI and was able to trade for Monotheism and Engineering. I hoped for Theology, but I got Feudalism -- at least that gives me a Sun Tzu prebuild for Sistine.
I've just settled a remote town for Ivory, so my next dilemma will be in a few turns, whether to use the prebuild for SoZ, or hold out for Sistine and then build SoZ...I'm leaning towards SoZ because America has Ivory, but I didn't see them building it yet on the F7 screen. I also haven't met the Zulu yet, so they could also have Ivory and be building it.
Culture-wise, I'm streets ahead of any of my other attempts, but I guess that two early SGLs will do that. I hope I don't mess this up now.
Bartleby
Remembers laughter
I needn't have concerned myself about choosing between using my prebuild for SoZ or Sistine; America finished their Statue a couple of turns before I got my Ivory connected to the capital. Must've been longer than I thought since I looked at F7. So I have Sistine now, but I'm a bit worried about being able to pick up the tech pace - although I have a good chunk of land, a lot of it consists of widely-spaced jungle villages.
Also I should be thinking about going to War soon and I'm not remotely ready for that.
Also I should be thinking about going to War soon and I'm not remotely ready for that.
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