Battlefield 1942

[yoshi]

I'm not posting about BFV because it's pretty much the same game...and hell, I like WW2--although there is a mod (or a few of them) out that allows you to play it using WW2 vehicles and models...only you get more realistic trees...*ucking yay, I can see leaves while I'm blowing stuff up!

I want to talk about his game because it's probably still the best FPS when you take into account requirements compared with something like Unreal II or Halo II--which are technically the new standard.

How shall I start this? How about a rating out of 10 (compared to...uh...some game that it can be compared to):

Graphics: 7/10
I'm not really one for graphics since I focus heavily on gameplay but a bit of atmosphere can go a long way as long as it doesn't muck up gameplay and this game doesn't.

Sound: 5/10
Real rounds going by you don't sound like that. 'Nuff said.

Replayability: SP 6/10
This is mainly beacuse of the AI.
MP 9/10
There could be more interesting objectives and stuff but hell, there is always some clever new way to frag other players when one's provided with such a variable arsenal of weaponry and vehicles.

AI: 5/10
Bots don't respond to commands bots kill their own idiot sleves way too often, accuracy is way too high--this could be partially dealt with by not allowing them to aim until a target is within visual range... The list goes on and on but it's still playable, which is more than I can say for some other WW2 FPS games.

Interface: 7/10
Simple but sometimes too simple. Minimap keeps track of friendly units but other than that is not very helpful except at keeping you from flying 'away from the battle' and being eliminated as a deserter before you can re-enter the battle . As I said above, the bots pay no attention to your orders so the orders menu isn't any use in SP and you're better off with the chat in MP anyway. The start menu interface really pisses me off because it's majorly lacking in terms of game options, especially in SP--and SP is where you really want the options in order to make up for the lack of interesting play you get from other players.

Gameplay: 8/10
Drive tanks, fly planes, sail ships, snipe (with Bazookas ), plant explosives WHEREVER YOU WANT, steal the other side's vehicles, hold actual strongpoints (as opposed to some flag) and all in WW2 setting. Need I say more?

Yes, I need. Those were the good things. The bad things are little but have an effect:

No peeking. This would be VERY helpful when playing againt the bots--who are already aiming at you but only fire when there is nothing blocking the shot (unless it's another bot, in which case the bots just keep shooting...even if the bot in the way is on the same side ).

Weapons take too long to stabilize (especially the sniper rifle)--with the exception of the Bazooka and Panzerschreck, which are rocket-firing weapons and basically fire where you point them thus you can actually get more accuracy out of them than a rifle WITH A SCOPE. I like playing the sniper so being fragged by a Bazooka while I wait for the sight to center on the target doesn't make me particularly happy (and being well-concealed doesn't help in SP because the bots are set to react to things they can't 'see'...MP is another matter ...'camping' indeed!).

Another issue with bullet-firing small arms is that they shoot like lasers (i.e. there is no delay before the hit, so this means that you can get a headshot from 1/2 K away with the guy running and continuously turning on a dime--no friction on turns as in other FPSs so bots can change directions without the effect of inertia taking place). [For the wise-guy who says that my laser example is flawed because even light has a finite speed I say: there are forums for people like you...and this ain't one of 'em.]

Vehicles blow up way too quickly so getting your tank knocked out means the end almost every time (on the occasion that it doesn't immediately blow up, you get but a second or two to jump out and since explosions have an unrealistically damaging effect on the player, you get toasted even though you're 5 meters away from the tank--so it's like a grenade blowing up).

Health is unrealistic. You fall four feet and you practially die. You fall higher and it's 'yoshi is no more.' A 5-year old would be less delicate!


Granted, a lot of these things can be, and most cases have been dealt with by the modding community. But some things are beyond even modders. These are some of the things I would like to see patched in to Bf1942 that are unlikely to be modded as the features do not exist:

Interface:

- Player ticket options in the SP start menu (more of them in the MP menu)
- Engaged enemy units appear in Mini-map
- Use of individual weapons
- Toggle weapon disappearance On/Off
- Mission objectives (e.g. must capture/destroy x before x)

Player:

- Peeking (Q and E; make F the new enter/exit vehicle button)
- Sprinting (GOD how great it would be to go faster than that stupid trot, even if only for a few seconds; would be very helpful when running between buildings--especially in MP as SP bots will hit you even if you're Speedy Gonzales)

Weapons:

- Hit delay (fired shots don't take effect immediately)

Vehicle:

- Gears (using keyboard numbers as default)
- Speedometer (apparently compasses are possible to mod in but not this)

AI:

- No reaction to non-visible units (just about the only part of the AI that hasn't been modded)


That's all I can think of for now. Any of this worth the trouble of patching?

(I had some ideas for a system of campaigns but I'll leave that until I see some replies. No sense in writing if there's no one reading.)

 

[yoshi]

Not a single reply? Not even a sarcastic peep? ...

 

[Hakim]

I read it, BF is pretty much the only game I play nowadays.

The fall damage disturbs me the most, everything else is ok and on multiplayer it's super.

BTW what do you mean with hit delay, should the bullets have some visual dodgeable track?

I play all the classes, depending on the situation.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

I always play as a medic, I like their healing ablity and their primary gun is the best in the game.

 

[Ville]

I use Engineer, especially in Pacific

 

[yoshi]

@Hakim:

I know what you mean; I used to play quite abit of Counterstrike, Unreal, Quake, then I got into Operation:Flashpoint which was quite elaborate in terms of interface but sometimes a bit too elaborate for an FPS. Then Halo and tried out some other stuff. MOH and RTCW series are basically SP-oriented (i.e. heavily scripted) and MP is just running around maps using the same arsenal that you use in SP. When BF came along, all that flew out the window.

Yeah, the fall damage is way too exaggerated (to the point of absurdity actually) but I only included things that are not moddable AFAIK.

What I meant by 'delay' was actually was just adding in a timer to the script so that when you fire there your shot won't count at x distance until x.

But, it doesn't really matter how its done; since heavy rounds travel along a visible arched track, there is no reason why bullets can't do the same (only without the arc). I think the reason why this isn't so already is because the round travelling along a track takes up CPU time (even if only a bit) but heavy rounds aren't fired that quickly anyway. An MG on the other hand, may fire hundreds of bullets per minute, thus CPU usage goes up. (This is a guess on my part as I don't know how the small round system really works--maybe it does travel along a track only there's no speed limit assigned to bullets thus you get the 'laser' effect.)

@Emp.Napoleon:

I used to always play sniper in SP but the long reloading time and waiting for the sight to center was irritating. Besides, the AI is tracking you at all times (e.g. hide in a building out of view, have an enemy tank come up to the building to the side nearest to you and wait there eternally--or until you look out a window and since it's already aiming at you, blows you away instantly) so there's really no point except to pick bots off at long range...but this gets rather boring after a while.

I guess the medic is best since you get the SMG and the medkit but the range is very limited and if playing SP, the bots don't usually miss at close range (i.e. bot shots you between the eyes the split second it turns a corner) so the medic's healing ability is not very helpful there. And MP I always feel like I'm cheating when I play as medic.

Now, when playing against humans on the other hand...on can get pretty creative using pretty much any kit. This is where that sprinting feature I mentioned would come in very handy.

Another thing that has been dealt with in mods but not in BF is the perfect accuracy of the Bazooka's rocket screws up the game in both SP and MP: in SP the bots snipe with it and in MP you get n00bs who just run about using it as a close-combat anti-personelle weapon since the weapon's stability is not an issue. IMO, it would make both game modes better if the Bazooka/Panzerschreck were made less accurate at long range and far less accurate when running.

But, as I said, the modding community has addressed most of these issues though. Thing is, you have to put up with lots of bugs when using mods as they aren't as 'smooth' as BF.


I think the peeking feature I mentioned would really make for awsome BF gaming. It works great in other games that have the feature. Especially useful when facing tanks: you want to stay as covered as possible.

Speaking of cover, something that would make people who use tanks lives easier would be the ability to break buildings apart when firing upon them. As it is, all you have to do is run into a building and they can't touch you without getting out of the tank and running in after you. MOHAA made use of this feature in the tank levels (i.e. certain walls preset to break apart and reveal inside of the buidling when hit by a shell). Would also give the map a 'lived in' look where ruins are created by actual combat rather than just looking like that from the start (a la Kharkov or Stalingrad). I would probably make the breaking apart slow though (unlike MOHAA) or use a damage mechanism like vehicles do (i.e. x hits result in wall blowing up).

 

[Thrawn]

The moving sight when snipering is to reflect that your hands aren't perfectly steady, and that your breathing affects your aim. If you're prone, it's not so bad. Standing is where it's worst.

 

[Hakim]

@Yoshi: when I started to play BF I found it very refreshing to be out in the open. I'm fed up with all those tunnels, corridors, elevators etc. I also prefer the weapons. I also think the weapons in the Quake and UT series are too eccentric.

So what mods have you guys tried? I've tried Desert Combat, Silent Heroes and Galactic Conquest. I like Desert Combat best.

 

[Gainy]

I've only tried Desert Combat. Found it to be crap
BF1942 is good, but i've been playing it ALOT in the past 2 months (since getting broadband), and i'm getting kinda tired of it.

RE yer review: You have given the bots too much credit. They should get 3/10 at the most. I love every other aspect of the game

 

[yoshi]

Sniping: I've used a rifle before (granted, not at those extreme ranges) and it doesn't sway that much...and my aim--in RL--isn't all that great to begin with! My comment was really to point out that all in all, the sniper has too many disadvantages (e.g. low ammo, too much swaying, missing even when on target, very slow to reload).

@Hakim: Its funny that you should say that, because the open levels are great for vehicles but hell for infantry. When not using vehicles, Stalingrad is probably my preferred level even if its a bit small for my taste. For example, El Alemein is great for air-to-ground combat but having to bail out and being stuck in the middle of the desert is a sure way to get fragged.

Mods have a lot of problems because they haven't necessarily had the level of development that BF had, although DC comes pretty close. Personally, I just enjoy the WW2 setting so Battle Group 42 would be the best mod IMO.

Bots: Yes, they could use some serious help but considering that they have to operate in a highly unscripted environment (e.g. must react to a wide variety of triggers within just one situation), I wouldn't knock them too much. Just DL the Realplayer bot mod. The difference should be quite noticable.

Personally, I think that if the AI just weren't to have the ability to aim at you until you are actually in view (this is the reason why they get perfect shots instantly), Sp gameplay would be much better.

 

[Hakim]

@Yoshi: if you drive a vehicle into the desert and it gets destroyed, hide behind the wreckage. At least in DC it remains for quite some time and provide protection from enemy fire.

I'll try BG 42, it's nice that it's available as torrent.

 

[Thrawn]

Desert Combat is great simply because of the choppers. I love flying those.

 

[Knowze Gungk]

I have BF1942, but I stoped playing it when Operation Flashpoint upstaged it when people started making Battlefield 1985 MP missions. And there's no chance of me going back now I've discovered the vast amount of CTI missions people keep making.

 

[Hakim]

The first thinig I noticed about DC was the sound of the clothes when moving, quite realistic (the little I know about how it sounds).

 

[Quokka]

Health is unrealistic. You fall four feet and you practially die. You fall higher and it's 'yoshi is no more.' A 5-year old would be less delicate!

Several ways around this.

Run 'uphill'

When going over an edge that is higher than you thought or when you mean to, simply turn your perspective around and look up the slope you are going down. You will rarely take damage no matter how high the slope is.

Parachute

Jump over the edge and press 9 to open your parachute. You will take no damage if the chute opens. Safest method but parachutes are highly visible so not one I use too often when getting into position to Snipe or in Capture the Flag games.
This can also save your life when caught in an explosion and not killed outright. If you open the chute while in air you will be alive when you land rather than dying on impact. Quite tricky to do but worth a go.

Diving.

When you approach an edge that is larger than 4' you can press Z and dive over the edge and slide down the slope on your belly. Unfortunately if the surface is not smooth you can take some damage from the bumps but a whole lot less than death.

 

[yoshi]

Quokka, I am aware of those solutions but thanks. My point was that there the damage rating for impact from a fall is way to high. The AI uses the parachute trick EVEN WHEN THE BOTS HAVE BEEN THROWN INTO THE AIR BY ARTILLERY FIRE! (There are few things that irritate me more than firing heavy rounds at enemy infantry causing them to be thrown into the air--which kills them when they hit the ground, if it hasn't already--only to see them open their parachutes, float down to earth and keep running as if nothing happened! )

A solution to this expoit would be to limit the use the parachute by only being able to activate it when in an aircraft. (Odd how designers never thought of that. )

I have been thinking about what whole new XP for BF1942 could look like. I was thinking of innovations like linked maps, a ranking system, new items, new player abilities, AI tweaks to make it play better, all sorts of functionality that is simply not moddable (i.e. only the guys at Dice could do it).

Unfortuantely, with BFV and the upcoming BF2, I seriously doubt there will be another XP for BF1942 (not to mention that 2 XPs are usually the industry limit for most games).

I'll post it later anyway...if only for posterity.

 

[andvruss]

Except for the Sims .

 

[Quokka]

I agree the damage rating is too high for falls. A shot from a sniper rifle does 1/2 damage if not to the head but tripping over your shoelaces is fatal?

The bots using the parachute trick is annoying as hell.
Only in planes would make sense but would rob me of a very valuable option.
How many times have you started over a bridge only to find a Tiger coming up the other side? Exit stage left and chute.

I doubt another XP is on the way but look forward to BF2 as I don't really rate BFV at all. I have to get some things sorted before its release though as I am going through a mini BF1942 addiction right now and can't really afford to and I won't have this much free time in the future, ever unless I start budgeting for it now, much like my retirement and 401k.

 

[Gainy]

I was thinking of innovations like... ...a ranking system

There are several online ranking systems. The best being:
http://www.bftracks.net/

When statwhoring, my best ranking was 22nd (without cheating/baseraping/whatever) I no longer statwhore...

I have nothing against being able to open yer parachute when blown into the air btw. It's really useful for me, and it doesn't bother me when my opponents do it

 

[yoshi]

@andvruss: Except for the Sims

Heh, yeah there are definitely exceptions.

@Quokka: A shot from a sniper rifle does 1/2 damage if not to the head but tripping over your shoelaces is fatal?

Couldn't have put it better myself. But the sniper isn't fatal below the neck just to prevent the Sniper player type from gaining too much of an advantage over the other player types--if they did this, they'd have to reduce the Sniper ammo to one clip and no grenades just to make it fair (not that it would make any difference to the AI, which usually goes for headshots).

How many times have you started over a bridge only to find a Tiger coming up the other side? Exit stage left and chute.

See the thing is, if you really were infantry up against a tank in WW2, you wouldn't have that option--if you make the mistake of not searching the area for tanks first, the rule of life says, 'you dead.'

Realism aside, eliminating the 'jump-n-chute' escape strategy would keep things more balanced in SP mode because it prevents the human player from doing things that the bots wouldn't (i.e. bots aren't programmed to 'escape'; the only attack--like most FPS bots).

I doubt another XP is on the way but look forward to BF2 as I don't really rate BFV at all.

XP: What did RtR and SWoWW2 prove? Players weren't happy with them because they offered little that the modding community couldn't do (or hadn't already done for that matter). The only thing most players really bought the XPs for where the maps IMO. This proves that an XP that were to offer more new features (i.e. tweaks to game mechanics--can't be modded from BF1942) and maps (something nobody seems to be much good at, hence the modding option isn't necessarily there), would sell even now.

If I understand anything about sales, if the XP were different enough, at least everyone who bought RtR would buy the new XP.

BFV: Not different enough to justify buying it.

BF2: Sports new features like Commander Mode (give general orders--although I think this only refers to MP play, so the bots may still not listen to you! ), guided weapons, 100+ player MP (even with present limit, players have trouble staying organized and chaos ensues), 'material penetration' (I'm assuming this means that rounds go though 'penetrable' objects and not something dirtier ), character growth (allows player to increase in rank and get rewards for success), voice-over support (convenient but nothing to brag about as it's already been done) and some other non-revolutionary stuff that should have been in BF1942.

More importantly, it also sports higher requirements (you can figure that out just by reading, "all-new gameplay engine brings the immense locations to life complete with realistic physics and dynamic lighting"). Another BF1942 XP would not. This will limit a lot of players who are presently just barely able to run BF1942.

And of course, new vehicles and player types (both of which are already moddable).

BF2 will also inevitably cause the modding community to forget about BF1942 and make the jump to the new game--just look hwo quickly they made the jump to BFV.

[BTW, what is this player obsession with better graphics.? I find it odd that this is such a big selling point--all it does is slow the game down for something that has little effect on play. The first thing I do is lower graphics settings right down to the bare minimum so that I get the crispiest play possible.]

It's funny that these features are so abvious that I put them all down as XP potential features. So that means that these are things that are fairly logical and any player will want to see these features. All of this, minus the guided weapons, should've been in BF1942.

But, I'm familiar with the way developers think: features that don't need to be included aren't (i.e. the game just has to be better than the competition, not much better--in other words you include the minimum, not the maximum number of features; just enough to give something different to consumers). Would BF1942 have had better sales had these features been included? No. Enough said.
For that reason, BF2 will probably not include stuff like peeking and sprinting.

So you'll get slightly less stupid bots, and some new game features at the cost of upgrading your system and buying a whole new game. Yay.

BTW Quokka, your addiction will pass once you've played each map for the five-hundredth time or so. Of course, I guarantee nothing with mods.

@Gainy bo: There are several online ranking systems.

Yeah, I know but I wasn't referring to stats by themselves.

What I was proposing was that in SP campaign, you rise in rank according to score per map. The higher the rank, the more control you have over the battle. The other day I was thinking of a really cool feature (IMO): higher death ticket penalty for officers (rank higher than Private) killed--the higher the rank, the greater the penalty to the defender's team. Also, only officers call in air/artillery strikes. So, as a sniper, you would search out officers (infantry with extra chevron and insignia on helmet) so as to do more damage and reduce the enemy's capabilities. You'll see what I mean when I post the mock-up XP Readme file.

BF2 features something like this (as I mentioned above).

I have nothing against being able to open yer parachute when blown into the air btw. It's really useful for me, and it doesn't bother me when my opponents do it

But doesn't it just defeat the purpose of the game? The parachute thing alone turns a relatively realistic WW2 FPS into a fantasy game.

It doesn't bother you that when you send a round into the midst of a group of infantry, blowing them into the air, they just float back down thus nullifying the effect of your well-placed artillery fire?

At the very least, the parachute should take longer to be effective so that it won't have any affect before x seconds have past (i.e. a certain height).

Of course, in saying that I'm implying that the fall damage factor is reduced as well to compensate...wouldn't want to leave you without either.