Battlefield 1942

[Quokka]

What I was proposing was that in SP campaign, you rise in rank according to score per map. The higher the rank, the more control you have over the battle. The other day I was thinking of a really cool feature (IMO): higher death ticket penalty for officers (rank higher than Private) killed--the higher the rank, the greater the penalty to the defender's team. Also, only officers call in air/artillery strikes. So, as a sniper, you would search out officers (infantry with extra chevron and insignia on helmet) so as to do more damage and reduce the enemy's capabilities. You'll see what I mean when I post the mock-up XP Readme file.

I remember something like this in an old Amiga game called Commandos. If you, and your squad, made it through a level alive then they got promoted. Promotions granted more speed, accuracy etc and better adherence to orders. This would be unfeasable in BF as its damn near impossible to live through and entire map, but the ticket option sounds cool and the limited ability to call in strikes would be handy.

In online it would be great to have a ranking system and their orders had to be followed if they are within a certain distance. Orders like 'Follow me' could be enforced by a high rank so they could form an attack squad to take the vitally needed spawn point and stop 5 idiots from plane/tank camping in the base as the tickets run down.

Personally I would like some sort of exclusion zone in MP. I hate it when I am a sniper and have spent minutes getting into position only to have a total noob come and stand very close and draw attention, especially from a distant Priest/Wespe. Precedence decided by rank and can be turned off so more than one person can shoot from inside a building for example.

BTW Quokka, your addiction will pass once you've played each map for the five-hundredth time or so.

In the interests of science I plan to test this theory

I play under the name of Bratwurst and mostly CTF games at the moment. I hope to shoot you some time.

 

[yoshi]

If you, and your squad, made it through a level alive then they got promoted. Promotions granted more speed, accuracy etc and better adherence to orders. This would be unfeasable in BF as its damn near impossible to live through and entire map, but the ticket option sounds cool and the limited ability to call in strikes would be handy.

Increasing skills like that (i.e. better accuracy, etc.) would still look kind of odd having the same guy respawn will better abilities but what the heck, BFs not that realistic. In my case, I was thinking of applying it to vehicles as well (e.g. new 'Pilot' player type--pistol, parachute--would be the only type to be able to use aircraft; higher rank means more advantages like more stable flight for accurate fire).

It's assumed that in BF, 1 bot represents a ton of guys (i.e. that's what the death tickets are about and also the reason why you respawn instead of staying dead as in other realistic FPSs). Nevertheless, the officer distinction would really make sniping awsome IMO and reward players that do well by making them offciers thus giving them additional abilities.

I was thinking about a new feature for Campaign mode: story-based so if you die, the map has to be repeated. You start out as a Private and rise through the ranks according to you performance as you progress through the campaign. It would add a nice touch if you could get demoted if you screw up to many times (e.g. losing too many death tickets due to sending bots to their deaths without getting the equivilant in kills).

I would also like to see special missions (e.g. as a memeber of a British Commando team, you must capture a German prototype aircraft; fly it to x point on the map and you win).

Man, there's just so much stuff that could be done to make this game even more awsome than it already is. Don't get me wrong, the modding community has put out some excellent work but there are some things that just can't be modded without getting into the area of copyright enfringement (i.e. you can mod but you can't hack). It's to bad the XPs didn't offer more features instead of just maps and vehicles--both of which net is full of.

In the interests of science I plan to test this theory

Test away!

Aside:
It's funny that people get pissed when you snipe them--they just yell, 'f-ing camper!' So the 'ol tactic of running out at the other guy with guns-a-blazing doesn't work, good riddance! It doesn't work in reality--greens that do that in the Corps. don't last long--so why should it work in a simulation? I think these players are under the assumption that they're playing Unreal or Quake or something where you can take direct hits from rocket launchers and still keep on kick'n. Personally, I love having to move along the floor whenever I pass by a window when in a building because there's probably a pro sniper in the vicinity just waiting for some goof to get near a window. IMO, there's nothing like playing against a good sniper.

The one big downside to BF where snipers are concerned is that rounds don't explode through walls so even if you know where a sniper is, you have to go into the building an search him out or use a sniper of your own, instead of just using a tank gun to blow up that section of the building--which is much easier and you don't have to risk being ambushed in a building.

It would be so awsome if bots could function that way in an unscrptied (i.e. not pre-set a la MOHAA) environment.


BTW, you guys shouldn't forget to check out some of the mini-mods out there (if you haven't tried them already). There's one that's quite good--can't remember the name right now--that increases the damage factor of all weapons so you really have to make your shots count; sniper rifles are lethal no matter where you hit. VonManstein's No Bazooka mod is great for SP Infantry-based maps so you don't have swarms of Bazooka-carrying bots all over the place (this guy also has some other mini-mods that make the weapons more historically realistic).

There is also a mini-mod that makes small arms fire much more accurate...I recommend it if you're playing MP--fragging human players with the default sniper rifle is near impossible if the other guys are any good because they'll just keep zig-zagging (ever see 'The In-Laws?') in order to avoid being hit and there's no inertia for players so they can turn 90 degress instantaneously.

 

[Gainy]

It's funny that people get pissed when you snipe them

No it's not. I hate snipers There is virtually no skill involved, they try not to give anyone the opportunity to shoot them (by hiding/shooting from distance) and they help the team in almost no way. Most are homosexual

pro sniper

Oxymoron.

Talking about mods, I downloaded the Pirates mod for it at the start of the week. There's only really 1 type of guy worth going, but it can still be really fun

 

[Thrawn]

Aside:
It's funny that people get pissed when you snipe them--they just yell, 'f-ing camper!' So the 'ol tactic of running out at the other guy with guns-a-blazing doesn't work, good riddance! It doesn't work in reality--greens that do that in the Corps. don't last long--so why should it work in a simulation? I think these players are under the assumption that they're playing Unreal or Quake or something where you can take direct hits from rocket launchers and still keep on kick'n.

Agreed. People who yell camping aren't playing the right game. Snipers are an important part of any team. If you've got a balanced team, you'll have snipers. How do you think the allies are going to take out the machine gunners in the bunkers on Omaha Beach? With snipers. You could try get into the base to take them out, but that'll take longer probably require several attempts. It's why I hardly ever use an emplaced machine gun for very long, stay there too long, you'll get sniped.

And sniping does require a lot of skill. It requires more skill than running at someone and firing wildly.

 

[Hakim]

If I get killed by a sniper, a sniper in my team haven't done his job properly. Sometimes this annoys me enough to become a sniper myself.

Omaha Beach is a good example of a map where the sniper's efforts are crucial. Not only on the beach, because when you've taken the next flag there will be snipers waiting on the cliffs.

Why do artillery shells start dropping right on your spawn point? Because of a sniper, and another sniper is usually required to take him out.

Sniper duels can be great fun.

 

[Quokka]

There is nothing as enjoyable as Sniping another sniper, especially on the larger maps like El Alamein. You just know hes spent minutes running into place only to get killed as he sights his first victim and has to run all that way again.

I also like sniper because of the death animations of the victims, the head kicking back and the sack of potatoes slump to the ground ...

The people that yell 'campers' are usully the ones that are camping either for planes or tanks and deserved to be shot. You'd think after they had been shot 5+ times in the same area they would change to Assualt/Medic and search the area but most of the time they don't.

The only time I hate snipers is when half of my team are snipers on maps like Battleaxe or Berlin (WTH?) and when you hit TAB they have stats like 0 0 0 or even worse 0 0 11. How can you complain about a sniper with 20 kills?

 

[Hakim]

Guadalcanal is another map promoting sniper duels. It's exciting when the other sniper has discovered you and you both know you only have a fraction of a second to stabilize the aim and shoot.

An important sniper skill is to choose spot wisely, not to have the sky in the background and lying next to a larger object.

However, a lot of snipers can be a sign of weakened morale, when the situation is hopeless. Sniping will not get any flags.

edit: although painting targets for an artillery can be the last resort to break out from a cornered situation.

 

[yoshi]

Originally posted by Gainy bo:
No it's not. I hate snipers There is virtually no skill involved, they try not to give anyone the opportunity to shoot them (by hiding/shooting from distance) and they help the team in almost no way. Most are homosexual

It's funny if the other player runs out into the open shoting at everything that moves a la Quake only to get sniped and stammer that some shuck's camping when this tactic is even more suicidal against bots--the 1.6 patch and some mods (namely RealPlayer, which is also used in others) have made the bots much more accurate.

Bot accuracy: This I don't think is fair...but what can you do. I've been sniped so many times when playing against bots. Why? Because I suck? No. Because playing againsta bot sniper is like playing against a player who is equipped with X-ray goggles, an eye looking in every possible direction and has god-like accuracy. The result is that there's no point to hiding and dodging and flanking and all that stuff because the AI knows all; the bot's already aiming at you even though you're behind an object and not only that but no matter how much you change direction, the bot will get you square between the eyes every time. Not challenging. It's like fighting a robotic-like demi-god: you can kill him because he may be concentrating about something else but if he's concentrating on you, it's time to respawn--there's no way you're going to snipe him faster than he will you unless you're before he aims at you.
BUT no human player can do that so then its fair because even the guy with a pistol can still figure out where you're hiding, sneak around and shoot you in the back.

In MP, everything's fair--the sniper wouldn't have been added if it weren't (i.e. each player type is balanced so that no type has an advantage except in circumstances suited to them.

Sniping requiring no skill: in BF1942 1.0 and up to I can't remember which patch the sniper rifle would stay completely static after swaying for a few seconds. Now there is always a slight sway so you actually have to take the sway into account. Also, if you fire you early, the shot--though well-placed--will automatically miss...so in a sense, it's actually harder than firing a real rifle.
Unfortunately, small arms rounds are instantaneous so you don't have to calculate the delay (i.e. round hits the very instant it is fired, regardless of range) so you can freely aim directly at a moving target at even a great range and still get a hit, unlike reality where you have to fire ahead of the target in order for the round to arrive at the point the target will within that time. So in that sense, sniping is cheating because there were no lasers in WW2. But, had this been included, most players would say, "WHAT THE...?" after missing when aiming straigt at a moving target--they just wouldn't like it and this would reduce the success of the game for the sake of realism.
AFAIK, no mod has meddled with this so it's brobably not moddable--assuming the small arms rounds, like the heavy rounds, even exist in space and the hit is not just an automated trigger action as a result of aiming at the right coordinates (i.e. no bullet, just the hit).

BTW, the only thing better than being a sniper against another sniper IMO is being the assault type and having to face a sniper. It means you can't just find the guy and snipe from there, you actually have to go and frag him where he sits.

Personally, I like being the sniper just so that I can cover the other guys while they move in on a position. And since the reload time is atrociously slow (I've fired multiple rounds in succession from rifle without the convenience of a magazine--unlike the one in the game--and even then I didn't take as long to load the rounds as it does to just empty the chamber in the game!) and you have limited ammo, you have to make evey shot count, so only snipe other snipers then bazookas or just good enemy players.

When playing as a sniper in the Tobruk map in SP mode on the Axis team, I find it to be a decent challenge covering my team's advancing tanks by picking off threatening Bazookas and Engineers...just to see how far the bots can get before I have to intervene and help them.

In that light, the sniper can actually be the more startegic of the player types as you have to be very selective of the course of action you take.

Most are homosexual

Where did that come from?

Oxymoron.

Granted its a game and I've seen kids playing CS and sniping guys a mile away with but the quick slide and click of the mouse but we all know these nerds wouldn't last two seconds in real combat. BF aiming isn't as clean as CS so you really do have to get a feel for the game physics to be able to get near-impossible hits (I've yet to see a mid-air snipe a la 'Enemy at the Gates' though). And hitting a good player is never easy because they will randomly change directions so you'll have trouble lining up the target (i.e. anticipating where he will go so you can aim there and wait for him); if you can do this you're as close as you're going to get to being a pro in a game like this.

Talking about mods, I downloaded the Pirates mod for it at the start of the week.

Haven't tried that one. What do they change in it?

Originally posted by Quokka:
I also like sniper because of the death animations of the victims, the head kicking back and the sack of potatoes slump to the ground ...

That was rather criptic. Actually, I never liked that player death because at long ranges you can't see if the helmet's come off and they tend to stand there momentarily so you don't kno if you fragged the guy or not. If the bot's arms were to fly up and he were to fall quickly to the ground it would be clearer that you actually got him.

The only time I hate snipers is when half of my team are snipers on maps like Battleaxe or Berlin (WTH?) and when you hit TAB they have stats like 0 0 0 or even worse 0 0 11.

Berlin's not bad but Stalingrad is probably the best of the original maps for snipers. Then there are player-made maps.

Originally posted by Hakim:
Sniping will not get any flags.

Sure it will. As the sniper you eliminate the guys defending the base so that your assault players can move in and capture the base.

 

[Hakim]

And hitting a good player is never easy because they will randomly change directions so you'll have trouble lining up the target (i.e. anticipating where he will go so you can aim there and wait for him);

Shooting moving targets are indeed hard, I usually avoid that (except the gunners on tanks - tank drivers usually don't bother about their companions safety). Besides, if targets are able to move that much they are suitable targets for assaults and tanks. The snipers niche are the ability to pick off protected people behind a machine gun or on distance (other snipers).

Berlin's not bad but Stalingrad is probably the best of the original maps for snipers.

Huh? I need to try this but I've always consider those the worst possible maps for snipers, everyone is on moving foot and you might meet somebody behind every corner. Stalingrad got machine guns, but they're usually not manned. Those maps are quite small maps as well, especially Berlin. Snipers have an easier situation in large maps like Guadalcanal, Bocage etc.

Sure it will. As the sniper you eliminate the guys defending the base so that your assault players can move in and capture the base.

The sniper can support and are even crucial on some maps, sure, but the actual capturing are done by men on foot.

 

[Thrawn]

Haven't tried that one. What do they change in it?

Think Pirates of The Caribbean and you should have a fair idea.

Climb into the buildings on Stalingrad. There are some that you can get into, and if you play allied, there's a ladder you can climb up that takes you to the top level of a building from which you can basically see to the spawn point on the other side of the railroad. (There are other places you can hide too.) I've had quite a bit of fun playing as a sniper against the bots on this map.

 

[Gainy]

I have nothing against good snipers, you may have misunderstood me Although I have never actually seen a good sniper, every person that goes a sniper does bollocks. They can't pre-empt where you are going to go, you only get shot when you type or whatever. That's what makes snipers Homosexual (it's all fitting together now, eh )
I wouldn't mind them nearly as much if it was just 1 per team (on a 10 v 10 map), but no. A lot of the time when playing Omaha as allies, literally everyone but myself and another will be a sniper. This does not help at all. All they do is lie on the beach.

Haven't tried that one. What do they change in it?

\/

Think Pirates of The Caribbean and you should have a fair idea.

The website is: http://www.bfpirates.com/

Some of the maps are quite bad, but the assault ones are good.

 

[Thrawn]

I should download it so I can run around with a cutlass, sail galleons, and sing yo ho ho while I'm at it.

 

[yoshi]

Originally posted by Hakim:
The snipers niche are the ability to pick off protected people behind a machine gun or on distance (other snipers).

That's fine for assaulting a specific position but anybody can take out an MG. The real challenge IMO is selectively taking out the best players; I personally don't bother with the n00bs and just go for the pros. That way, it balances things out so the new guys can get a chance against players who seem to have full time jobs playing BF--nothing like seeing some smart-ass punk that does nothing but gloat about how easy it it is to frag other players and how it's just too easy to... <bang> he gets it 'tween the specks before he can say n00b.
It also serves to take out bazookas/engineers if you're covering armor, as I said before.
You can also provide a distraction, so the rest of your team can flank the enemy who's too busy scraping around on the ground in order to avoid getting sniped.
There's plenty of stuff you can do as a sniper (and with the spotting feature, it's the closest thing to being an officer--hence, the reason why everyone want to be sniper...but unfortunately, too many captains on one boat don't make for good sailing.

Those maps are quite small maps as well, especially Berlin. Snipers have an easier situation in large maps like Guadalcanal, Bocage etc.

I guess but the fun having it difficult (i.e. challenging). Stalingrad is designed for sniper fests (try playing one-on-on with another sniper and the map will be as big as you need it to be)

Originally posted by Thrawn:
I've had quite a bit of fun playing as a sniper against the bots on this map.

Yeah, but since they know where you are, there's no point to hiding and soon you'll have a ton of bots around the building you're in just waiting to take you out the moment you show your face. It's good practice to a degree but kind of defeates the whole point of the sniper type--in fact, there may sometimes be so many bot snipers that the game becomes unplayable as they frag you the moment you much as take a peek from behind the object you were hiding behind (i.e. it restricts movement to the point that you can't do anything without getting sniped as opposed to a human player who oses sight of you when you hide...hence reproducing what sniping is all about). This is really something that many games suffer from (how many times have you been picked off in CS the moment you step out a doorway by a bot with a pistol halfway across the map). CS:CZ bots don't do this--they actually have look for you.

(Of course, the terms, and 'see' and 'know' are referring to the way the program reacts to players in the 3D space that is the map. So, by 'see' it just means that the AI reacts only to players that are not blocked by objects and only to those which are within a certain area of the direction the bot is facing. Know' means that the bot does not react to other players' x,y,z coordinates in the map unless it can see them or they are spotted. This is really something that the guys at Dice should've worked on but didn't because this is a primarily MP-based game.)

Originally posted by Gainy bo:
A lot of the time when playing Omaha as allies, literally everyone but myself and another will be a sniper. This does not help at all. All they do is lie on the beach.

Yes, that level should actually have some mortars (I think one of the mods use this--indirect fire as opposed to direct fire so that you get a bombardment effect instead of depending on MGs to slw the Allied advance, thus no real need for snipers). Why are they all snipers? Think about it this way: it's D-day, you're Private Joe on Omaha Beach and the CO tells you to storm the bunkers right into heavy MG fire. Whiole you're pissing you pants aren't you just wishing you had a rifle w/scope so that you could take out the MGs at a distance? (Fact is, this was not necessarily done due to the fact that not every Private was a trained sniper--unlike BF where everyone gets to be a sniper...whether they know how to aim or not.
...Although maybe the reason why they lie on the beach is for medicinal purposes.

Some of the maps are quite bad, but the assault ones are good.

Just out of curiosity, hwo long do muskets take to load. If it's remotely realistic, then reloading times must make for some REALLY slow action. I don't think the BF engine was designed for that much of a stretch.

 

[Thrawn]

Yeah, but since they know where you are, there's no point to hiding and soon you'll have a ton of bots around the building you're in just waiting to take you out the moment you show your face.

I haven't had that sort of experience. I find that I can last for quite a while, even if I stay in the same spot for longer than I probably should. I've run out of ammo and need to get more before.

 

[Gainy]

Just out of curiosity, hwo long do muskets take to load. If it's remotely realistic, then reloading times must make for some REALLY slow action. I don't think the BF engine was designed for that much of a stretch.

Takes longer than any normal BF1942 weapons, but not really slow.

 

[yoshi]

I haven't had that sort of experience. I find that I can last for quite a while, even if I stay in the same spot for longer than I probably should. I've run out of ammo and need to get more before.

Really? Using default BF or Realbot or whatever, I play Stalingrad as Axis, snipe from a blown-out building near the City Center base and I start out picking of every bot that runs past but soon I've got tanks and infantry sieging the building and the moment I so much as peak out, I see a rocket heading right at me--even if I duck, it hits the wall directly behind me and the splash damage usually kills me. Maybe you're just shooting from a greater distance so the bots never get that close.

And what about the bot snipers? Once they've engaged you it's all over for you unless you just high-tail it out of there or just stay down and wait for your stupid bot buddies to take him out. Bot snipers wait about a second before being able to shoot (the pre-set illusion of bot waiting for the scope to center on the target) whereas you have to wait some 3 seconds...by which time you've already been fragged.

(I can paste the wall with most average human players but even bots set to normal difficulty are impossible under certain circumstances.)

 

[Thrawn]

Well, I can play against the bots on hard, and have a kill/death ratio of at least 5/1, usually around 10/1. Regardless of which class I play. If I play sniper on Stalingrad, I usually go as Allies, and climb the ladder at the back of a building from which there a gaps I can snipe acroos to the other side of the railroads. I might get one or two bots at the bottom trying to shoot me, but I only really get hit if I poke my head out too far. Usually run out of ammo first.

 

[Quokka]

A lot of the time when playing Omaha as allies, literally everyone but myself and another will be a sniper.

Omaha is one of the best maps to train as a sniper if you play the Axis. What Gainy bo says is mostly true in almost every server I play Omaha on. Usually breaks down to guys with clan tags attacking and the rest sniping.

Try going Axis and stay in one of the bunkers. I learnt to continuously move and then stop and fire quickly (hopefully) taking into account the sway of the rifle. I died alot before getting it down but you can slaughter any sniper that is in the prone position as they will get dizzy trying to track you and have no way of anticipating when you will fire. Many times they are too stupid too move even after being hit.
This method works even better in the open when you can kneel for a steadier aim and become a smaller target. Of course there has to be a bit of distance between you and the target but 90%+ of the time I will win by either killing them outright or injuring them so they have to change course for either cover or medical attention. Diverting an attacker from the flag I am guarding/they are attcking is good enough for me.
I also mostly aim for the body rather than the head unless the target is moving slow, in a straight line or is stopped. Many times the target was already injured and will die but even if they don't they are at 1/2 health and many times a teammate will finish the job shortly thereafter. No worries.

Sniping will not get any flags.

Not true. Because of their enhanced view of the map they can sometimes take advantage of situations other players can't see, such as the nearest enemy being too far away to stop a quick assault, or they can direct other teammates to avoid danger and/or alert them to enemy positions.

The real challenge IMO is selectively taking out the best players; I personally don't bother with the n00bs and just go for the pros.

I am an equal opportunity sniper, a ticket is a ticket, and on Omaha especially you have to shoot the n00bs. Give a million monkeys ...


The hardest part of sniping is adjusting for the lag on different servers. A ping of 20 is great but when it gets up to 200 the lead times can be very difficult to work out.

Bocage, Stalingrad and Battleaxe are favourites for sniping and Berlin, Iwo Jima and Battleaxe are favourites for Assault. Berlin, Bocage and Battleaxe are excellent Capture The Flag (CTF) maps.

I really hate El Alamein.

 

[yoshi]

Well, I can play against the bots on hard, and have a kill/death ratio of at least 5/1, usually around 10/1.

Unlikely you'll get that ratio from medium range...but maybe. I guess I just don't have the patience to stay down until the bots either move away or are engaged by my team's bots. I certainly do take the time when playing humans though--not to mention repositioning frequently.

Omaha is one of the best maps to train as a sniper if you play the Axis.

It's hell if you play SP as the Axis though; you can move around all you want but Allied bot snipers will get you regardless, unless they engage someone else. It certainly teaches you how to aim quickly though--within the minimum time allowable by the 'auto-miss' mechanism.

I am an equal opportunity sniper, a ticket is a ticket, and on Omaha especially you have to shoot the n00bs. Give a million monkeys ...

Omaha is the exception because the point, as the Axis, is to prevent the Allies from getting to the bunkers. Of course, if they're all snipers then I go for the ones with the highest number of kills--those games are boring because by being snipers, they stay on the beach as Gainy Bo said.

I really hate El Alamein.

That map is designed for vehicle combat. Infantry only serve a support role at most. It's the best map the game has where air-ground combat is concerned--great for bombing practice. The fog is annoying when divebombing though because you can't see the target from a height so unless you calculate your course well, last minute manuevers will likely result in a miss. But when you can see them, targets are clear against the desert terrain. Starfing infantry is especially easy because they move slowly and have nowhere to hide when traveling between bases.

 

[Gainy]

That map is designed for vehicle combat. Infantry only serve a support role at most

Nope. The best way to defend flags on that map is with infantry. If you get in a tank, you'll be bombed

This has turned into quite the BF1942 discussion btw