Beelining Petra

[MarshalN]

I've been trying some games as Arabia, and one of the things I've been trying to do is to beeline Petra to see if it's viable. I play on immortal and continents or pangaea. However, I haven't had much success going straight for currency - some other civ has always beaten me to Petra. I am usually about halfway done with maybe 10 turns left when it gets built - this is around turn 80 or thereabouts.

Also, beelining Petra means sacrificing a lot of other things - no NC until later, for example. I think it's probably not worth it at all given the risk of failure, although it does render some Arabia starts to be pretty crappy if you land in the middle of the desert.

So, does anyone have a successful Petra strategy for BNW immortal? I'm all ears and would love to know if anyone has a pretty reliable way of building it. Obviously if the start is lucky and no other civ is going for it because they didn't end up in a desert then building Petra becomes a lot more possible, I suppose.

Just for information sake, I usually start with two scouts, then shrine (unless there's a few wheat, then maybe granary) and then probably an archer and so on. I've considered not bothering with pottery but that seems to be too much to give up - the possibility of desert folklore (and failing that, God of Festivals as desert often has lots of incense) is alluring, and granary is pretty important. I usually take tradition.

 

[Keirador]

It's just luck, there's no consistent way to get Petra often enough to build a strategy on. Can't be done reliably enough to risk messing up your early teching and pour a bunch of hammers into something you're probably not gonna get. It was easier in GnK, but now that Petra comes with a free trade route and free caravan, the AI beelines it even if they have one single square of desert near their capital. If you successfully build it on Deity, it's probably because you're the only player with desert.

 

[Keirador]

Contrarily, if you're on Pangaea and run into everybody else quickly enough, and notice that you are the only or one of the only civs with any desert, it's a very nice perk to pick up. Just DoW the other civs that have desert (if you can survive it) or use bribes to start a war with their neighbors. They'll often put off Petra in order to defend themselves and you can scoop it up.

On Continents or any map where you can't meet everyone right away, it's not worth risking.

 

[RedRover57]

You can try going full Liberty and using the finisher free Great Engineer to rush Petra. It works a good percentage of the time on Immortal, but Deity is definitely uncertain depending on the other AI civs and their start location. In one Deity game I was 5 turns from Currency with a GE ready (it helped that it was Poland for a quick Liberty finish) when Gandhi built the Petra on T58 (and he only had one desert tile near his capital!). I was going to use the GE to get Petra in my second city, which was an amazing desert area for Petra - it was still ok without it but would have been exceptional. You may need a high food capital to try this since you will be losing the early growth by not taking Tradition. But the free GE strategy is particularly good if you want Petra in a satellite city.

 

[Plumfairy]

If I get a Petra-friendly start, I'll usually chase after the wonder by going Liberty and I'll use the Great Person finisher to build it. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't, but the advantage of going Liberty is that you can pretty much play normally while pursuing the wonder. So if you don't manage to get it, it's no big deal; you can use that Great Person for something else. He won't go to waste. Hell, you can even delay founding the Petra city until right before you have the GE, in case your desert city site requires Petra to be any good.

BTW, I also play on Immortal.

 

[Keirador]

How are you getting the Liberty finisher in <80 turns? Does this assume popping a culture hut or two or allying a Cultural CS?

 

[MarshalN]

Hmmm haven't tried the liberty route, but yeah I have trouble seeing how you can finish liberty fast enough....

 

[casualplayer]

It's a crap shoot. If you settle an awesome Petra city and miss Petra, the city is probably crap. You are competing against every AI that has a flood plain next to their cap. I had it go on Turn 58 the other game. 58!

I have had 1 pop Petra cities before; settle, then the GE comes in and boom! Amusing but not a great tactic. If I can't hard-build it in less than 15 Turns I don't even try anymore.

 

[Plumfairy]

How are you getting the Liberty finisher in <80 turns? Does this assume popping a culture hut or two or allying a Cultural CS?

It's not assuming anything. Like I said: sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't. When I do get it, it's usually because I have a culture generating pantheon, a cultural CS, a bunch of AIs that aren't inclined to build wonders, or not much desert in the world. Oh.. and I usually try to build the oracle, so getting that extra policy speeds along the Liberty finisher too.

But yeah... if conditions don't happen to favor me, I just soldier on without having built it.

 

[Keirador]

So far Marshal it seems like the consensus is that it's possible under highly favorable conditions but not worth building a strategy around.

 

[Plumfairy]

When I am chasing after Petra, I'm sort of building a strategy around it. I'm usually emphasizing culture as much as possible. But culture is useful with or without Petra.

 

[Keirador]

Plumfairy, I'm saying that's it's not a strategy you can plan on before exploring your map extensively, unlike, say, the National College rush or Compound Bow rush or even rushing Stonehenge, early-game strategies that could fail but you know pretty quickly if they're applicable. If you've got a Continents map and beeline Petra, nothing stops somebody on another continent from finishing Petra on turn 60 and leaving your tech game and social policy game in tatters.

 

[dragonxxx]

I never bother with it in the capital. Had it maybe one or two times in the expo, and was not something THAT special tbh. It basicly turns useless early game tiles that you do not work (like desert hills) into not that bad early game tiles, that you still do not work I mean ... 3H or 1F4H tile is still useless when you want to grow Unless you have a lot of desert wheat and some sheep, Petra is not something you should beeline.

 

[anthropophage]

Not just desert wheat and sheep, but also riverside hills and oases.

 

[dragonxxx]

Not just desert wheat and sheep, but also riverside hills and oases.

Yeah, but you need these anyway )) And Petra doesn't help em.
So basicly the best thing petra gives actually doesn't have anything to do with the desert tiles Its the extra caravan ...

 

[joshua43214]

Petra, like the Oracle, seems to go early or late depending on who is on the map.

The few times I have gotten a Petra worthy start (most desert starts are not worth the Petra), I go right for writing >mining and get a library up, then head right for currency. BO is important, scout/scout/shrine/worker (steal atleast 1 more at the same time)/library/.../Petra. It helps if you can rush buy the water mill.

The nice thing about this is that it lets the AI's who will rush it out get it our before you have committed any hammers to it. Make sure you get a min of two workers going, improve a hill with one and farm with the other. Just push food as much as possible like you normally would and you should hit about 5 pop when its time to hammer down on the Petra.

If the AI builds it, no big deal, just head down to get workshops, and then back up to education and you get a standard workshop opener instead of the NC opener. Opening with early workshops is nearly as fast as opening a fast NC provided you get room for expansion. I suggest not trading or selling embassies til later to hopefull slow the AI down from settling toward you. Provided Gandhi is not around you can almost for sure get the HG instead.

 

[MarshalN]

Nope, HG have been gone too right after Petra. I was just asking brcause Arabia seems to want a Petra start, but I think it's impossible to count on it, seems like I'm not alone

 

[joshua43214]

Nope, HG have been gone too right after Petra. I was just asking brcause Arabia seems to want a Petra start, but I think it's impossible to count on it, seems like I'm not alone

HG is very easy to get on Immortal provided Gandhi is not in the game. I would say I get it 90% of the times I go for it using exactly the BO and tech order I gave. Typically it will go HG, Oracle, NC and NC finishes around T95, this will be on a 2 or 3 city start depending on production in the cap. It's a solid opener and I rarely finish in over 290 turns, and usually much less.

I have tried this several times on Deity OCC and never succeeded in getting it. Getting either the HG or Petra seems to be the "must get" wonder for BNW OCC. BNW really screwed us OCC guys

 

[MarshalN]

HG is very easy to get on Immortal provided Gandhi is not in the game. I would say I get it 90% of the times I go for it using exactly the BO and tech order I gave. Typically it will go HG, Oracle, NC and NC finishes around T95, this will be on a 2 or 3 city start depending on production in the cap. It's a solid opener and I rarely finish in over 290 turns, and usually much less.

I have tried this several times on Deity OCC and never succeeded in getting it. Getting either the HG or Petra seems to be the "must get" wonder for BNW OCC. BNW really screwed us OCC guys

To be fair, if I had ignored Petra and just gone for HG, I probably would've gotten it the times I tried. Going for Petra meant I was too late in the HG party

 

[joshua43214]

If you are lacking the hammers to get the Petra, then it probably is not a good Petra start. Too often I see people get a bunch of desert and go "oooh, DS and Petra!" when they would be much better off with something else altogether. Petra makes hills, and especially river hills seriously awesome, and does very nice things for desert wheat around an oasis. If you are not getting at least 6 food out of the deal, then you are better off with HG which gives you a free garden even if you have no fresh water.

The pic linked in the OP is not what I would consider a Petra worthy start, and I would only build it on Emperor and below if it was still around after I got HG, Oracle and NC