Beginning to see the AI Cost Advantages

[cracker]

In collecting data on how the AIs produce units and improvements I now have a much clearer picture of how the AI cost advantaged help they to out run the human playes in most cases.

Each difficulty level has a cost factor that is applied to the things the AI players must build, buy and research.

For the human players the factor is always 10.

For the AIs on Cheiftain the factor is 20 (so everything the AI does cost double what it costs the human).

For Monarch level the Ai cost factor is 9. This means that if the human player has to produce 40 gold to research a tech, then the AIs can do it for 36 gold.

On Emperor level the AI factor is 8.

The AI cost factor is not just applied to tech research put also gets applied to the cost of all wonders, improvements and units.

On emperor level, humans have to produce 30 shields to produce a settler, while the AI players can produce each settler for 24 shields.

I was surprised to confirm that The AI cost factor also applies to population growth. Without a granary in your towns, human players must produce 20 food units to grow the population by 1 citizen, on emperor level the AIs only need 16 food units to produce a new citizen.

Some of this cost factor accounts for why you see so many posts about the "settler Diahrea" from the AI players as well as the number of posts where the AI players beat you to a wonder by just 1 or two turns.

These cost factors are on top of additional starting units like workers, spearman, archers, and even settlers at the higher levels.

 

[Hurricane]

Nothing new here. The AI bonuses have been around from the start, and AFAIK they have stayed exactly the same throughout all patches. The computer has the same cost as the human player on Regent, pays more on lower difficulty levels and more on higher. As you note, this concerns almost all countable factors in the game (food, production, trade). However, it does not cover combat or movement rates.

These factors are all clearly visisble and changable in the editor (difficulty tab).

 

[chiefpaco]

I think Cracker has a fair point & one that needs reminder of from time to time to the newer players.

Something else I've been thinking about is the AI Cost advantages & how it could lead to cheaper AI-AI trading at the higher levels.

First, the AI-AI trade ratio allows the AIs to trade tech at a lower cost. On emporer, the value is 150%, so a civ can trade a tech for 1/1.5 = 66% of its value. Note, this woudn't be the selling civs first demand, but it can bend this much if the buyer can't afford the full amount.

Second, and more related to cracker's point, is that when selling tech, the transaction also factors in the value to the buyer. Remember, when playing Emporer again, the production factor is 8. I'm speaking from what I've read & believe, so correct me if I'm wrong here:

Example: 1 AI civ researches Iron Working. No one else has it or has started it. What is the value to each buyer? Well, it would cost each AI 80% as many beakers to research than the human. So, I think the first AI buyer would need to spend 80% in gold of what the human would pay. That's what I'm assuming.

Then you could factor in the minumum purchase price at Emporer (66%) and the AI's minimum purchase price is (0.8*0.66) = 53%. Also, if any civ actually had invested some money into beakers for Iron Working, the price drops further.

Tech devaluation effects follow.

Why do I believe this?
- Tech buying cost decreases the more beakers you have put into it. It costs me way less to buy a tech after I've spent some turns researching it already. So, I believe that the selling value has more to do with how much it will cost the buyer than how much the seller invested or the actual cost of the tech.

- I've seen Soren comment on tech trading & how the costs are figured & that's what led me to believe this:

Source for information (unfortunately, another board's link )
AI tech whoring thread

 

[etj4Eagle]

Originally posted by chiefpaco
Second, and more related to cracker's point, is that when selling tech, the transaction also factors in the value to the buyer. Remember, when playing Emporer again, the production factor is 8. I'm speaking from what I've read & believe, so correct me if I'm wrong here:

Yep this is the generally accepted situation and is one of the main causes of why the AI asks for everything including the kitchen sink when you want to buy a tech, but will give you diddly squat when you try to sell them an equal tech.

 

[JustListenen]

Without the cost factors and extra units, all difficulty levels would be the same. To convert DIETY level to Chieftan level of game play, change the deity cost factor to that of Chieftan level. Remove the extra units for the AI Civs. Now you can play at the level called DEITY but it is really only Chieftan level without the AI Advantages.

All of the AI has to be built into the program as an "expert system." All the moves and options have to be taken into account by the programs in developing the "decision tree."

You can call this an <b>AI CHEAT</b> if you wish, but its how they differentiate difficulty levels.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Without the cost factors and extra units, all difficulty levels would be the same. To convert DIETY level to Chieftan level of game play, change the deity cost factor to that of Chieftan level. Remove the extra units for the AI Civs. Now you can play at the level called DEITY but it is really only Chieftan level without the AI Advantages.

I did something like this. I cranked the cost factor for the AI on Deity up to the max (100, I think). So it took the AI something like 100 shields to build a single warrior, and 100 turns to grow to a size 2 city. With some other cheats, I ended up with over 400 cities, while all the other civs just had their capital. Except England, they must have got lucky on a goody hut.