Benchmarks?

[duke o' york]

I want to know if any of you play with certain aims in mind.
For example: You want to have at least 25 cities by 1AD, want to discover Electricity by 1400 or have left the home continent or conquered another civ by a certain date?
When I played Civ 1 on the lower levels when I first started I set myself the goal of Electricity by 1AD and often achieved it, but when I moved to higher levels it was no longer possible. Does anyone else set themselves benchmarks like this?
Of course, even if things aren't going to plan, then I refuse to retire because these are the most interesting games.
Obviously most people will have the plan for the SSC set up at the risk of other areas of their empire, and will concentrate solely on the relevant wonders, but is there a date that it must be done by?
I only ask because I managed to get a large democracy up and running in a game last night before 1AD and a collection of wonders to boot. Admittedly, when I saved I realised I was on Prince level but my mate chose all the options without my knowing and then started the game, leaving me to play on.
It was:
Prince, large random, 4 civs(!!! - I only know because of MP's Embassy), raging hordes (I assume - haven't checked the score yet), Americans. A sort of Playstation GOTM then, but not one where I can compare scores with anyone.

 

[el_kalkylus]

When I first came here to this forum, and looked at all the games at 1 AD, I was really impressed (and sceptic). Therefore I have tried to copy their games to see if I can do it without reloading. I have tried to replay the GOTM 6 several times, and GOTM 4 several times, and I was never anything near the result of Shadowdale, since he seem to conquer lands with only one troop, ignore the barbarians, and go without defense.

Frustrated by this, I have set my own goals. I should at least have built two wonders before 1 AD (at least hanging gardens, and another cheap wonder). The more games I have played, I have noticed that an SSC is not that important for me. I want at least 20 advances before 1 AD, and no less than 10 cities.

Since I am such bad at war, I usually go to republic/democracy at 500-1000 AD, and let my cities grow.

 

[Andu Indorin]

As an advocate of the late-game Power Democracy, I generally don't have much in the way of early or mid-game benchmarks. In general, I try to establish a sixteen city "core" of my civilization which, when I "modernize" will allow me to maintain an average of two advances per turn, while producing an elite military force capable of eliminating all opposition in a short war, while also producing numerous freight units to "finance" my conquests. The only other benchmark, per se, is to try and maintain a 1:1 ratio of settlers/engineers to cities.

 

[Spartan_RawB]

If you play anyone in the top 10 in civ fan, and you have only 25 cities by 1 AD, you are in big trouble.

More cities never hurt, as long as you have the wonders going for you...

 

[el_kalkylus]

What?? You think 25 cities is not enough at 1 AD? That is a lot of cities for me. I usually only have around 10-15 cities by then. You must have time for war and building wonders too.

I don't think you have to make 25 cities to be a top 10. Look at Starlifter for example, he has won several times, and he doesn't have many cities at 1 AD.

 

[Nick]

I always play Deity and rarely lose (unless I mistime my spaceship in a close race) but I almost never have 25 cities by AD1 - even if I can get Michael's by then it is too late to enable a lot of city-building and without it all cities have the little black dude appearing which completely stymies any useful production.

In fact the only times I lose (or rather give up) is if I have huge barbarian problems early on (after about AD1 they are rarely anything other than nuisance value). Stuck on a tiny two city island the other day I had two boatloads, and six lots from the two darksquares on the island turn up between 3500BC and 2950BC, taking one of my cities and killing anything that came out of the other.

Although lots of cities is nice, particularly if well situated, and essential for a high score, Deity games can be won quite easily with 20 to 25 cities, possibly less, if you can avoid war and don't build too many useless units/improvements.

 

[duke o' york]

This seems to have turned into a discussion about how many cities you should have by 1AD, but this was only one of the examples of a benchmark that I gave. What about techs? When do you think that you absolutely must have Michelangelo's Chapel and Monotheism? For the bloodlusters, when do you like to have conquered at least one other civ?
Thanks for the responses. I realise that you can't have a hard and fast rule for all games but there is usually something you'd like to have achieved if it hadn't been for all those barbs turning up every other turn or the war with the Japanese taking far longer than you thought it would.

 

[duke o' york]

Andu, I have just read the Roman strategy guide that you included in your post and have a question apropos the soundness of the ancient part. What is the point of constructing Michelangelo's chapel if you do not have any temples? Mike's acts as a cathedral in every city, but a cathedral only multuplies the effects of a temple so a temple is required in the first place for Mike's to have it's very beneficial effect in a city. Without temples it's a massive waste of shields. I'm pretty sure I've got this correct. If not, please say so.

 

[Nick]

Mike's has nothing to do with temples nor do cathedrals. I very seldom have temples, except perhaps in SSC or a good production city by the time I build Mike's. I think you are confusing it with Oracle which increases temple effects.

I used to like to have Mke's by AD500 at latest, preferably by AD1 but it depends on the situation and other civs. In a recent game in which I had very little contact with other civs (and seemingly they didn't have much contact with each other) I didn't build it until about 900AD and I don't think anyone else had even discovered Monotheism by then.

I tend to find if I set goals that I am disappointed if I fail to achieve them and also that it makes me play too inflexibly - sometimes it is necessary to take an unusual course to achieve the best results.

I seldom (too seldom) conquer other civs early on, but I did dispose of four (very close to my starting position) in a game, all by AD1 - about three more than in any other game I've ever played!

 

[Sodak]

My only benchmarks are:

settle the capitol by 3750bc
have monarchy before 2500bc

Otherwise, my only timetable is building a wonder before the AI builds it. Unless I'm playing an early landing attempt, these are the only benchmarks I use.

 

[Spartan_RawB]

When I'm talking about any bench marks for me, I'm talking about standard multiplayer games played on civ ladders - that is 2x2x, king level - so maybe that's the difference in perception here.

If you have 25 cities by 1 AD, you are in big trouble. You will almost never beat the better than the average players. I normally have about 40 cities by then, if not more.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Originally posted by duke o' york
Andu, I have just read the Roman strategy guide that you included in your post and have a question apropos the soundness of the ancient part. What is the point of constructing Michelangelo's chapel if you do not have any temples? Mike's acts as a cathedral in every city, but a cathedral only multuplies the effects of a temple so a temple is required in the first place for Mike's to have it's very beneficial effect in a city. Without temples it's a massive waste of shields. I'm pretty sure I've got this correct. If not, please say so.

Originally posted by Nick
Mike's has nothing to do with temples nor do cathedrals. I very seldom have temples, except perhaps in SSC or a good production city by the time I build Mike's. I think you are confusing it with Oracle which increases temple effects.

I think Nick is entirely correct in his assessment; you appear to be confusing the Oracle -- which requires temples -- with Mike's Chapel. While the Temple/Oracle/Mysticism combination is initially more effective than Mike's Chapel, it expires way too early in my games. I far prefer setting up my initial trade network as soon as possible.

As for other benchmarks, that really depends a lot of factors, luck not being the least of them. For example, in my HOF Deity game, I had to overcome a difficult start. With the map settings at warm/arid/3 billion years, the land tended to be dry; and initially I had limited access to whales/wine/silk. It wasn't until 1950 that I founded what would become my science city. I started zero techs, so it wasn't until 1650 b.c. that I established a monarchy. (Never mind the fact that I had to level one of my own cities when Barbarians overran it before I had writing/diplomats, much less the money to bribe the city back!) And then I got stuck in a expensive race to build the Colossus and the Hanging Gardens. Consequently, it wasn't until 1360 that I had successfully established my sixteenth city. However, once Refrigeration in 1570 was discovered -- and I now rate that advance more important than the Railroad -- my civilization began its steady rise to world dominance. In all, the "benchmarks" for this game are somewhat skewed:

4000: Athens founded
1950: Delphi refounded as SSC
1650: Monarchy Established
625: Egyptian civilization destroyed
450: Delphi builds Colossus
400: Delphi builds Hanging Gardens
25: Republic Established
AD 1: Delphi builds Mike's Chapel (11 cities founded by this date).
480: Greek capital moved to Delphi
860: Delphi builds Copernicus's Observatory; Sanitation discovered
1320: Delphi builds Newton's College
1420: Explosives discovered
1540: Democracy established
1570: Refrigeration discovered
1640: Railroad discovered
1800: Aztec civilization destroyed
1830: Industrialization: Modernization commences
1840: Automobile
1846: Delphi builds SETI; military buildup for Final Advance commences
1852: Commencement of Final Advance
1854: French and Persian Civilizations destroyed
1856: Sioux and Zulu Civilizations destroyed
1858: FT 1; Celtic Civilization reduced to final city; commence mass production of Engineers and mass expansion of civilization.
1899: Space Ship Completed
1912: Trade Paradigm Collapse
1928: Last rush build of city improvements; end of Modernization
1929: Commence mass Reforestation; commance mass use of Food Caravans
1931: Commence demobilization of Engineers
1938: Science reaches natural rate of 64,000+ beakers per turn
1948: Last Growth achieved via WLKD
1949: Space Ship Launched
1954: FT rollover
1959: FT 255
1960: Alpha Centauri

 

[Ren]

I dont have any specific dates, but at the start I like to build as many cities as possible, as quick as possible

 

[Sevorak]

duke o' york,

To me, the Cathedral description says:

3 unhappy citizens are made content.
+1 with Theology,
-1 with Communism.

Nowhere does it say "multiplies the effects of temples". I can demonstrate most conclusively that my cathedrals function wonderfully without temples present. In my Prince level games, I used to rely on Michelangelo's with Theology in order to not have to build a temple before my Aqueduct.

-Sev