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Best and worst Unique Unit?

Seals -... never go obsolete, ... amphibeous ......assault bonus vs machine guns
....fair attack against any wounded modern unit .
(Although maybe a attack chopper that carried a troop would be a better american UU)

Runner up - The much derided Jaguar.

Attack UU's with less than incredible punch, but the perfect surgical strike units.:scan:
 
I think many of you forget Incas UU. Its just a warrior. But atleast when playing agains AI, its a great unit. its +100% agains arches makes it stronger than arches, witch meens you dont need to research archery making it posible for you to go straigh to iron working, giving you swordsmen before anyone else get it. This make it very possible to take out atleast one AI before then even get swordsmen. And by having the space of two civs and maybe capture one, two or tre ekstra city. You will not just get back what if have costed in military unit you will also have a great advanges in the rest of the game
 
Agree with above on the Quechas. I just tried them out for the first time, and it was pretty useful to build a few waves of Quechas (1-turn build time by the time Archers come around) and overpower the Archer-defended AI cities.

I'm also a fan of the Musketeers. I love the fact that they have the fast movement of mounted units without the handicaps (weakness vs. Spearmen/Pikemen and tile defense). I'd say the biggest strike against the Musketeers is the near arrival of the Riflemen; I waited too long to start using Musketeers the last time I played as Napoleon. But a beeline to the Musketeers could work out quite well.

Haven't tried Cossacks yet, but that looks like a good candidate to be my favorite UU.
 
I have always been a defensive/passive aggressive warmonger and it seems like everyone has ignored the Greek Phalanx as one of the best UUs.
Although it is only a point stronger than the unit it replaces (Spearman) the +50% hills defense makes a fortified Phalanx in a city on a hill tile virtually insuperable.
Spearman, as a unit in general, are overlooked IMO. Alexander's aggressive trait guarantees a Phalanx promotion upon completion and a whopping one-third of all 18 civilizations in Civ IV have a mounted UU! Spearman are best suited for city defense, but can also hold their own on the battlefield (preferably a hilly region).
 
Considering phalanges I must say that I am not enthusiastic about these units. Spearman are already strong enough to take out mounted units in the ancient and classical era. This holds also true for mounted UU in these eras. The only advantage I see is that a phalanx doesn't need to be upgraded to a pikeman and still can do well against Knights. But that is about it.

I thought about giving a phalanx a cover promotion and use it as an attacking force. But axeman and swordsman will simply do better. Has anyone an idea how to use those phalanges?
 
I like the Camel Archers and Skirmishers. The Camel Archers are great because they dont need any resources to build them and have extra withdrawal chance. Skirmishers are good due to the extra strength they hold over Archers and they dont become obselete that quickly so they are useful for defending your city for a long time.

The worst IMO would have to be the Quecha and the Jaguar. The Quecha is just a slightly improved Warrior so becomes overpowered very quickly. The Jaguar is OK if you dont have access to iron, but if you do, there is little point to it. The reduced production speed doesn't seem worth the loss in strength.
 
Being the russophile I am, playing Russia for 90% of my games I've always had a penchant for Cossacks, especially of i can bee-line to them with any sort of time advantage. They were always my staple conquerers in civ3 and they are doing it for me in my first few civ4 games, at least at the easier levels while i cut my teeth on the game. How the perform in the harder civ4 levels remains to be seen, but i find them a decent answer to just about anything else that they come up against until obsloleted by my rampaging Red Armour:D


On an earlier topic and sorry for dredging it back up:blush: :

The reason battleships disappeared are the fact that regular ship artillery became outdated compared to heavy missiles. These guns were too large, took too long to destroy something and were far too inaccurate compared to these missiles. The battleship platform was no longer required as these missiles fit nicely on destroyers or even corvettes, the battleships simply became far too expensive

No not really, battleships were obsolete before the age of missles. The pacific campaigns in WW2 proved that aircraft had desicive advantage over anything that floated and had a ranged that was hundred of miles superior to the largest guns of the fleet and Carriers became the new lords of the oceans. Battleships were indeed expensive when considering they could be sunk by a handful of well placed bombs/torpedos launched by a relatively cheap aircraft.
 
starbolt said:
Actually, the carrier is why battleships have vanished. WWII demonstrated that airpower and air intelligence was superior to virtually random barrage shelling. Rocketry was simply the nail in the coffin.

Doh just read this, must have missed it before:blush: my bad.

But I whole heartedly agree.:goodjob:
 
In most cases you keep the combat abilites of the original unit when you upgrade (keep in mind this if from limited observations).

Clarification: You keep the promotions, not the original base UU abilities.
************
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop?

I am supprized, really. With all the people posting that love doing math and tests and such, that the fast worker benefit is even debated, certainly not as much as it is. Take a normal speed game, map as all desert tiles. Take into consideration total # turns in a game. How many desert roads can ONE regular worker build? How many desert roads can ONE fast worker build. (probably won't even need to actually create a map for this one ;) ). Is the fast worker worth X# extra roads? Roads being the cheapest improvement, the player could count it down in game. For instance "that fast flood plains cottage cost 2 of the 137 fast roads available to the FW".

Crap, now someone will want an ingame counter added in the next patch because it not being there must be a bug.
 
i like the arabian camel archer....when you dont have acces to either horses or iron (or both), it would stop your knight production, but not camel archer production! but the fast worker is also good, considering the importance of good infrastrucure....
 
Best: Fast Worker.

Yes, there are plenty of people like morss who don't like this one. Its uses aren't immediately apparent; combat UUs are simple, easily understood. In general, a fast worker helps when:
1> You want to move onto a hill, or into a forest/jungle. Primarily early-game, but don't discount this one in continent/archipelago maps, where you might find that some ignored island has the resources you need. The late-game benefit on Terra maps should be obvious.
1a> In my current game, I had a huge stretch of jungle separating me from my neighbor, and neither of us had any reason to remove it (or even build roads in it) until I invaded him. A fast worker makes clearing that go much faster.
1b> In Civ4 you no longer need to pack cities quite so close together, so you'll occasionally have dead tiles between cities. When a late-game resources pops up in those areas (coal or aluminum on hills, for instance), you save a turn.
2> Just before railroads, you'll be improving all over the fringes of a large empire. Being able to shuffle back and forth across road networks helps a lot; moving 9 tiles instead of 6 is nice, it's as if you had everything railroaded already.
3> Don't think of it purely as 2 moves vs. 3. Remember that to start a worker action you only need a fraction of a movement point remaining. So, let's say you're improving around one of your cities, and many tiles aren't roaded yet.
With an old Worker you could move along a road for 1 square (2 in the later eras), move off into a plains tile, and start an improvement. Any more road movement, or any rougher terrain in the off-road tile, and you'd have to wait a turn. With a Fast Worker, you could move up to 3 squares (FIVE in the later eras), go off-road, and still be able to start the next improvement. Considering the size of the area each city occupies, this situation actually comes up a LOT.
4> When I'm invading someone's land and capture their workers outside a city, I can get them safely back to my territory. Although, in Civ4 you can railroad in enemy territory as you attack (unlike in Civ3), so it's actually not a bad idea to keep a group of workers with your attack stacks, as long as you're careful.

Sure, none of these benefits are huge, but added up across a dozen workers over the course of an entire game, it's far more than any other UU gives you. When you play any other civ, count up how many times your workers ended a turn without being tasked to a job. It's pretty common, actually. But for India, it's far more rare. Back in Civ3, I modded in an "Engineer" unit in the industrial era (1/5/1, 75% worker speed, all terrain as roads). It filled the same sort of role, and it was incredibly useful. You wouldn't want all your workers to be like this, but there'd be enough times where it was needed that you'd be glad to have the capability.

Then there's the obsolescence issue. This unit NEVER goes obsolete, so you never have to alter your timing simply to make room for it, and no matter what type of map you're on or what your neighbors do, it'll still give you its benefits. For example, I was playing a game the other night as Catherine, whose UU is the Cossack (Cavalry). It's a very nice combat UU; power 18 instead of 15, with a nice additional +50% vs. mounted units. But, at the time I reached the tech for it, I was surrounded by friends. So, do you simply sit back and waste the UU, or do you attack in a situation you wouldn't have otherwise?

And since I like Spiritual civs and building Wonders, Gandhi's the obvious choice for me.

As for the rest:

I dislike Ancient combat UUs; in most cases, an early war just cripples your own economy. That being said, Keshiks kick some serious ass; the movement ability means NOWHERE is safe.

I dislike Industrial/Modern combat UUs (Germany, America, maybe Russia). By the time you get to them, the game's already decided militarily.

Resourceless UUs (like the Jaguar) are mediocre for a human player, but fantastic for AIs (who aren't as good at city placement or hooking up strategic resources). Although, most of these have some other perk in Civ4 (Camel Archers retreat, for instance).

Now personally, I wish each civ had two UUs, one combat and one noncombat. They could have things like:
> Fast settlers for an expansionist civ
> "Covered wagon" settlers that start a city at size 2
> Workers that can fight a bit, for the inevitable Norse civ
> Fast missionaries, or missionaries with an Inquisition ability, or missionaries that can fight
> Missionaries that don't require a monastery
> Invisible scouts that can enter enemy territory
Instead, India's the odd man out.
 
Naturally, they are all situation-based. If you're going peaceful, all of the offensive-based units will be useless.

The Fast Worker is the best all-around UU. Cho-Ku-Nu's are good for a defensive war, and skirmishers are like the hoplites of Civ3. Both of those units are all-around very good.

If you are going an offensive strategy, the best UU would probably be the Praetorian because of it's long life span. Cossacks and Panzers are also dominant in their respective ages.

The worst is the Jaguar. If you have iron (which most of the time, you do) then you'd wish you had a regular swordsman unless it's an unusually jungly area. The Jaguar is the only UU that can possibly be a downgrade. Other subpar UU's are the musketeer (i can only find a use for them as pillagers), Navy Seals (limited uses), War Chariot (Horse Archers come very soon), and Conquistadors (not much of an upgrade).
 
I think my fav UU would be the Immortals. Just the fact that it has good movement rate and can go out and kill the wandering barbarian and come back and fortify your city.


As for India's fast worker........ in wartime...

1. Do we hide our workers in our city or we are still building improvements? although the build faster... it only takes 1 turn to pillage.(except for towns)

2. Are the fast workers being escorted by defensive units? because a well plan pre-emptive strike can capture your fast workers force. The it would give the enemy some workers.

3. Yes, we can build regular military units, but your opponent can mass produce his UU... with police state and a golden age. it's scary.

so fast workers in peacetime very good, in wartime bad.
 
Bain said:
The reason battleships disappeared are the fact that regular ship artillery became outdated compared to heavy missiles.

Actually, they disappeared ( mostly ) because of aircraft carriers. They were very effective fire platforms in Korea and Vietnam and Lebanon. I watched the New Jersy fire in support of the Marines in Beruit.

Bain said:
A torpedo (which can also be evaded, unlike artillery fire) would slow a battleship down and cause damage that can only be repaired in a drydock. However, it would take far more than a torpedo hit to sink a battleship

Look up how the Shinano was sunk in WW2. A carrier built on a Yamato class battleship hull. Was taken out by one torpedo. Now, I will admit that the ship was running with a short crew and damage control was not what it should have been, but the fact is that it was sunk by one torpedo.
 
Elponitnatsnoc said:
Other subpar UU's are the musketeer (i can only find a use for them as pillagers), Navy Seals (limited uses), War Chariot (Horse Archers come very soon), and Conquistadors (not much of an upgrade).

The Musketeer has two other good uses. When you send an attack force into enemy territory, a force of Knights will get ripped apart by anti-mounted units (War Elephants) if they outrun your other units. Musketeers can keep up with the mounted forces, to keep the stack-o-doom effective. Unfortunately your catapults are still limited to 1 movement. Also, it's far easier to build them in your back-line productive cities and rush them to the front-line cities.

The SEAL isn't bad; with those extra first strikes and the March promotion, it's a nice little unit to have. Unfortunately, the Marine's a bit weak to begin with, being that it's at the same techs as the Tank and costs almost as much, so unless you're on an archipelago map you just won't see much use for it. And the War Chariot I agree with you on; on paper it's nice, but you just won't have it long enough to matter.

Conquistador I really disagree on. Extra first strikes AND a +50% vs melee units? Besides the fact that anti-melee is still pretty valuable at that era (Macemen!), remember that most of the anti-mounted units are melee themselves, so it nicely counters the bonus that pikemen/spearmen get against them, and archers are already weakened by the immunity to first strikes, which pretty much only leaves War Elephants or Musketmen as a counter.

-------------
Ogrelord:
In wartime, my workers are still out improving my cities, because most of my cities aren't on the front lines. No need for escorts then; anything that could reach them would take several turns, even at move 2; my own cavalry using my road network can shred a force like that easily. I'll trade force-for-force like that any day. The only danger is on the first turn of the war, in a surprise attack. If you're pulling in every worker during a war on the off chance the enemy will throw everything he has into a deep raid, you're crippling your own economy for little gain.
 
keep in mind that there is no such thing as a standard CIV4 game.

For the people that say the jaguar sucks well try a occ always war where iron is not 100% or even 50%.

for those that hate the fast worker, try mp or raging barbarians.. speed is everything in terms of workers there.

Hate musketeers and seals? well have you tried a start era other than the default ancient?

those that hate X military unit... beeline for that tech and reevaluate.

If you play the same type of game everytime, certain UU's will rise to the top. If you are constantly placing bizzaro challenges and varients into the spin, you'll be amazed how normally marginal UU's start to shine.

The one thing that baffles me about civ though is the lack of naval depth. Notice not a single navel UU? I'd love to see the navel game expanded with alternate engish french dutch portuguese and spanish navel UU's. That's what the modding is for I guess!

Also carriers could stand to be given more teeth in this game but considering how lackluster the ocean aspect is in CIV4 default, I'm not complaining.

As for the comment about missiles obsoleting battleships.... oh man I was so about to hit reply right then and there but saw 4 pages of replies. I see the concept of sea based air power has been clarified already so I'll desist. No reason to continue beating on a dead horse! :lol:

as for the original post... I love love love cossasks for the default game as I love the base cav unit to begin with. panzers are yum as well as they age really well.

keep in mind spamming any one kind of unit, no matter how powerful, is a really bad idea. For every strength, there's a counter. One of the reasons I love the cav/cossak so much is because the express anti mounted units get replaced during gunpowder... they suck on the defensive though so back them up!!!

I try and keep a swarm of medic cav active until mechs become avail. even when mechs come along cav are fine unpromoted for medic duties... they are the last 2-move unit to get attacked in any stack!

Combined arms is so the way to go it's not even under reasonable question. Panzers may own even modern armor but gunships still tear through them with ease. Very few of the UU's are safe to spam, the fast worker and the incan quiche unit spring to mind, but don;t try spamming UU warriors when people are using axes!

Then again my favorite unit is the bomber/stealth... good thing that's not a UU! Just back them up with lots of fighters/jets to maintain air superiority and swarm the anti air assets before pounding the crap out of their airbase.

Cheers!
-Liq
 
But beating a dead horse is fun!
 
I don't know which one is best, but there are a few very good ones.

Praetorian - obvious choice
CKN - extremely versatile. Good defender. Able to take down a well-guarded capital with the help of a few catapults and a couple of spearman. The first-strike promotion comes handy when the unit is upgraded.
Conquistador - hard to counter. Even pikeman have problem dealing with them.
Panzer - can handle mobile infantry, which is a bit unreal

Fast workers are not much more useful all the game. They are only better in the early game. Anyway they are still quite good.
 
starbolt said:
Actually, the carrier is why battleships have vanished. WWII demonstrated that airpower and air intelligence was superior to virtually random barrage shelling. Rocketry was simply the nail in the coffin.
Ironically, without Pearl Harbor, the superiority of carrier fleets over battleship fleets might not have been discovered for a while. Pearl Harbor forced the US to go to carrier fleets. Yes, Pearl Harbor was an air attack, but all the battleships were sitting ducks in their berths. If the US still had battleships left (if they were at sea and were missed in the attack), then the navy still would have been battleship-centric. The only carriers would have been the escort carriers, militaries being notoriously slow to adopt new things.
 
Best: Praetorian, rips through everything like paper. Stick a few spearman/pikemen with them to take out mounted foes and there is nothing that can stop them

Same deal with Samurai, melee units don't have a prayer

Worst: Navy Seals- Kinda pointless. they can be good if you do much fighting in that era but by that time I'm usually bee-lining for Apollo program or UN.
Many people have won by the time they could be any use.
 
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