[NFP] Best game speed for beginners?

[Latakia]

So far, I've been following Potato McWhisky's advice for new players to play with "bog standard" settings, prince difficulty.

The only thing I find frustrating is how long games take. I really don't care whether I win these initial games or not, and I expect that the best way to learn is by making mistakes and practice, but because these games take so long, I don't get the chance to try very many new approaches.

So, I wonder what the pros and cons are of playing on a faster game speed for a new player who is learning the ropes.

 

[cylenalag]

Probably the biggest take away from Quick and Online speed games is they do indeed go fast and you can generally finish in one or two sittings instead of say three to five, Quick and Online speeds leave little margin for error as you have less time to make micro-level tactic and strategy changes. Also warfare is more difficult in faster games as eras fly by and the AI likes getting wall upgrades as soon as they can so you have less time for an early rush and by the time you get a battering ram to compensate le voilà they suddenly have medieval walls too. Now you need a siege tower.

Quick and standard speeds are probably the best speeds to start out with, probably more so standard. I started with Quick but when I accidentally chose a standard speed game and played it like it was Quick, I honestly didn’t notice the slower speeds and enjoyed the more time to make the necessary micro-transactions to not let my mid- and late game suffer like it usually does on Quick speeds.

Slower speeds allow you to make more mistakes too. It’s actually a very forgiving game on slower speeds and can be occasionally too fast paced on the two faster speeds.

 

[tiamats4esgares]

Honestly, for a new player the slower the better. The reason being is that domination is the easiest victory type for beginners, and it also happens to be the only one affected by slower speeds: war is easier the slower the game as your units are relevant longer and have more time to accomplish stuff.

That said, I'd still play on standard speed because I feel like the game is generally meant to be played that way. But if you move to an even quicker speed, you're only shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

Imho the game plays best on standard speed. You're right that it takes some trial and error, and the opening turns are crucial. There's nothing wrong with playing a number of games to turn 50 or 100 to practice. You can always come back to them.

 

[Naeshar]

The only thing I find frustrating is how long games take. I really don't care whether I win these initial games or not,

Welcome, first-poster!
The length of games is always a factor, especially for new players. Of course the quick and especially online speeds provide faster play, but I realized they also provide a different experience, as stated by others above. For me, standard is the way to play.

Also, length depends on the amount of war you do. Moving units can become tedious on every speed and peaceful games get along faster as well. Also if you want to try out different approaches, you don't have to finish each game. Abandoning a solo player game is not a sin even if it feels like one.
Playing on a faster game speed teaches you to build stuff as soon as you can, while slower speeds teach value of having a decent military. My latest game (standard of course) I was very slow to get decent army and lost first capital to Rome then second capital to Arabia, eventually regaining both. Being reduced to one city on King while having >500hours in game felt embarrassing (but now I overshadowed both and contest the Korea and Cree).

 

[Victoria]

I really don't care whether I win these initial games or not, and I expect that the best way to learn is by making mistakes and practice,

My advice is standard speed but do not play past T100. Even at T80 the games starts slowing as you have more to do.
The first 60-80 turns are critical so how about play a game trying different targets by that time. So for example get to 100 gold/turn by T80. Get to 7 cities by turn 80. A good one is to learn how to get to Knights by T80 (and the mercenaries civic at the same time) or how to get to 80 science/turn by T80 (not easy)
It is these strategies you then build the rest of your foundation on.
If you need help with these we are all happy to help.

If you want to ask someone specifically a question but an @ in front of their name so they get notified... so for example @Latakia

 

[PotatoMcWhiskey]

When I was starting to play I would play on Online speed and just rocket through games trying different strategies. I did this for a while until I just intuitively knew most of the games mechanics from experience.

Basically just do Online Game speed random civ with default settings and try things out. Don't think too hard about each decision, just try to learn to read the UI easily and come up with strategies.

Its ok to make mistakes, just remember them dispassionately. Don't beat yourself up for them.

 

[Latakia]

The first 60-80 turns are critical so how about play a game trying different targets by that time. So for example get to 100 gold/turn by T80. Get to 7 cities by turn 80. A good one is to learn how to get to Knights by T80 (and the mercenaries civic at the same time) or how to get to 80 science/turn by T80 (not easy)
It is these strategies you then build the rest of your foundation on.

Thank you so much! I am going to give each of these a try.

A couple more questions, if you don't mind:

Do the milestones above apply to all games, regardless of what type of victory I'm aiming for?

Are there any other foundational targets you'd like to add?

 

[Builderphile]

When I was starting to play I would play on Online speed and just rocket through games trying different strategies. I did this for a while until I just intuitively knew most of the games mechanics from experience.

Agree with this. Also, I think online speed is more forgiving when dealing with barbarians and surprise wars because you can build units more quickly relative to the time it will take the horde to arrive at your city limits.

For example, if 4 barbarians are 5 turns away from reaching your capital, on online speed, you could probably build a warrior or two in 5 turns, whereas on marathon speed, you won't have time to build any units.

 

[tiamats4esgares]

Do the milestones above apply to all games, regardless of what type of victory I'm aiming for?

Not necessarily.

Science victory obviously needs it, as well as Domination. If either of those victory types is what you're after, then follow Victoria's advice. Try to get to those thresholds if you can, but if not, don't worry about it since you're new. Playing on easier difficulties should help alleviate some of the pressure as well. Domination is the easiest victory type, and science probably 2nd. That's probably what you should be going for at first anyway.

For other victory types, science isn't as important. It's nice to have to keep up-to-date on your military, but playing on maps where you can be on an island helps make this less important. If you want a peaceful game, try Small Continents map.

Cultural and Religious victories focus more on the civic tree. A lot of what you should be focusing on in the science tree early is unlocking Construction ASAP once you have all the basic stuff, just for the Games and Recreation Inspiration.

And the way I play Diplomatic victory you definitely don't need Science either (except for needing Construction, like I said, or the emergency Astronomy if you need Potala Palace) but even if you go for Diplomacy "normally" I can't really imagine a use for Science other than maybe keeping military units up-to-date . But if that's your only goal, it's not that hard. (Same can be said about Cultural and Religious victories.)

So knights by turn 80 is certainly not important for all victories. Furthermore, if you're going for Domination with your UU, then that should be your focus, not Knights (unless of course it is Knights). And early wars might set you back, and barbarians can as well. You can't always have a perfect peaceful game.

And gold is not that important and very arbitrary. IMO, you should never focus on a set amount of gold. You want to focus on Food, Production, Culture, Science, etc. etc. and THEN gold. Use your gold to buy things quicker, and sell GPT in emergencies to get the gold you need now. Don't worry about what your current GPT is; it's not important. Many things can be converted to gold on a whim; luxuries, strategic resources, diplomatic favor, etc. Gold is just the "leftover crap" that you have extra. Think of it as a resource, not a threshold.

If you want more in-depth advice on Diplomatic victories let me know, as that's my area of expertise. Other victory types I can just give you vague information.

 

[semilogic]

My advice is standard speed but do not play past T100. Even at T80 the games starts slowing as you have more to do.
The first 60-80 turns are critical so how about play a game trying different targets by that time. So for example get to 100 gold/turn by T80. Get to 7 cities by turn 80. A good one is to learn how to get to Knights by T80 (and the mercenaries civic at the same time) or how to get to 80 science/turn by T80 (not easy)
It is these strategies you then build the rest of your foundation on.
If you need help with these we are all happy to help.

Thanks for this advice! I started doing this a few days ago based on this suggestion. I feel I've already improved just by focusing on the early game.

The 7 cities by turn 80 I've been able to do using Magnus and Colonization, etc. I've had difficulty with the others. @Victoria or anyone else, could you point me to some things I should read or outline some ways to approach 100 gold/turn, 80 science/turn and knights by T80?

 

[tiamats4esgares]

It's super easy to get to 100 gold per turn.

-Build a Market or Lighthouse in each city (NOT BOTH). Some people suggest building this as your first district, and some may even say to make the district the very first thing you build. I tend to build a granary first, especially if the city isn't on a river, but it's up to you. If the city IS on a river, not only is that obviously a better place to settle anyway, but also they can get adjacency bonuses from Markets (and you don't need a granary right away). But.......that's not the reason you build them. You build them for the trade routes, which can give a TON of gold.

-Sell your luxuries for GPT.

-Sell horses/iron for GPT, if possible, and if you don't need them yourself.

-Don't trade GPT to people.

As I mentioned myself, GPT is a super arbitrary number and is itself a resource, but if you absolutely feel as though you MUST focus on it, these tips should help, especially the first one.

For science, you should obviously always get Pingala first, and with your second governor title upgrade him to give more Science. Build Campuses in any city that gets to size 4, after they get the Market/Lighthouse. Also you want to focus on food in every city, especially those that are 2 or more away from their current max housing. And focus on housing. But population gives science, and food gives population. So....yeah.

 

[Victoria]

things I should read or outline some ways to approach 100 gold/turn, 80 science/turn and knights by T80

The chopping example link below is probably the best advice out there although outdated in some ways, the fundamental concept is still key. Efficiency, do what is needed for your goal.
BTW, 7 by 80 is good ... I judge my game with 7by70 but things do get in the way sometimes.
80 science by 80 is a nice challenge that tests you.

you should obviously always get Pingala first,

... why? And this question is related to my post above. Is your aim to shoot away in science so fast that building districts becomes expensive fast? Getting Magnus provision helps keeping city growth high in your most useful and powerful city. Then there is Amani where, if you cannot get culture another way you can always use her, let alone the era points. Moksha often for RV.
I am not convinced a Pin start should be an always... for me it is rarely but sometimes.
You are a solid member been here forever, we know our views already I guess, just nice to challenge.